How are these Great Beings explained?

[TransmutingSoul]

If people with God complex actually were who they claim to be, they could make it rain where there is drought, eliminate violence, stop nuclear warfare, and much more. But since they're not God, they can't.

The bounty of Free Will is not taken from us; A quote or two for you;

"Within the treasury of Our Wisdom there lieth unrevealed a knowledge, one word of which, if we chose to divulge it to mankind, would cause every human being to recognize the Manifestation of God and to acknowledge His omniscience, would enable every one to discover the secrets of all the sciences, and to attain so high a station as to find himself wholly independent of all past and future learning. Other knowledges We do as well possess, not a single letter of which We can disclose, nor do We find humanity able to hear even the barest reference to their meaning. Thus have We informed you of the knowledge of God, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. Were We to find worthy vessels, We would deposit within them the treasures of hidden meanings and impart unto them a knowledge, one letter of which would encompass all created things." Baha'u'llah : The Summons of the Lord of Hosts

God doeth as He willeth;

"Say: Should We choose, at one time, to shed the radiance of Our loving providence upon the mirrors of all things, and, at another, to withhold from them the splendours of Our light, this verily lieth within Our power, and none hath the right to ask "why" or "wherefore". For We are potent indeed to achieve Our purpose, and render no account for that which We bring to pass; and none can dispute this save those who join partners with God and doubt His Truth. Say: Nothing can withstand the power of Our might or interrupt the course of Our command. We exalt whomsoever We please unto the Realm of supernal might and glory, and, should We so desire, cause the same to sink into the lowest abyss of degradation. Baha'u'llah : The Summons of the Lord of Hosts

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

The bounty of Free Will is not taken from us; A quote or two for you;

"Within the treasury of Our Wisdom there lieth unrevealed a knowledge, one word of which, if we chose to divulge it to mankind, would cause every human being to recognize the Manifestation of God and to acknowledge His omniscience, would enable every one to discover the secrets of all the sciences, and to attain so high a station as to find himself wholly independent of all past and future learning. Other knowledges We do as well possess, not a single letter of which We can disclose, nor do We find humanity able to hear even the barest reference to their meaning. Thus have We informed you of the knowledge of God, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. Were We to find worthy vessels, We would deposit within them the treasures of hidden meanings and impart unto them a knowledge, one letter of which would encompass all created things." Baha'u'llah : The Summons of the Lord of Hosts

God doeth as He willeth;

"Say: Should We choose, at one time, to shed the radiance of Our loving providence upon the mirrors of all things, and, at another, to withhold from them the splendours of Our light, this verily lieth within Our power, and none hath the right to ask "why" or "wherefore". For We are potent indeed to achieve Our purpose, and render no account for that which We bring to pass; and none can dispute this save those who join partners with God and doubt His Truth. Say: Nothing can withstand the power of Our might or interrupt the course of Our command. We exalt whomsoever We please unto the Realm of supernal might and glory, and, should We so desire, cause the same to sink into the lowest abyss of degradation. Baha'u'llah : The Summons of the Lord of Hosts

More meaningless quotes rather than just twisting my words to suit your agenda. I'm disappointed.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Nobody owns ideas, but people do have unhealthy loyalty to them. Since moksha is tied to reincarnation, from your POV, that's impossible ... unless, you change the definition of moksha entirely to suit your own agenda.

I do not have to change the meaning of moksha, Hinduism has done that many times already. Remember you are always telling us different schools different thoughts and we should not look at just one interpretation on the internet. Are the different schools of thoughts given to suit an agenda?

I would think it would be so people can find moksha, that alternatives are offered.

Moksha - Wikipedia - Shows us there is different understandings.

I can agree that; "In its epistemological and psychological senses, moksha refers to freedom from ignorance: self-realization and self-knowledge." That is 100% compatible with the Baha'i Faith.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

More meaningless quotes rather than just twisting my words to suit your agenda. I'm disappointed.

As you can choose to be.

I prefer to be motivated to find Unity and hope never to let a little disappointment get in the way.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

I do not have to change the meaning of moksha, Hinduism has done that many times already. Remember you are always telling us different schools different thoughts and we should not look at just one interpretation on the internet. Are the different schools of thoughts given to suit an agenda?

I would think it would be so people can find moksha, that alternatives are offered.

Moksha - Wikipedia - Shows us there is different understandings.

I can agree that; "In its epistemological and psychological senses, moksha refers to freedom from ignorance: self-realization and self-knowledge." That is 100% compatible with the Baha'i Faith.

Yes we had this discussion before. You don't remember, obviously. You take the secondary misuse of the word, most likely added by Abrahamics trying to find some sort of comparison. So my argument stands, as it did before. You should stop pretending that Baha'i's understand the dharmic paradigm because they obviously don't. But go ahead, twist away. It's fun to watch.

 

[Vinayaka]

I prefer to be motivated to find Unity

So do I, but mine comes with mutual respect, without the need to make my own POV absolutely central to the cause. But I must say you lasted longer than usual this time.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes we had this discussion before. You don't remember, obviously. You take the secondary misuse of the word, most likely added by Abrahamics trying to find some sort of comparison. So my argument stands, as it did before. You should stop pretending that Baha'i's understand the dharmic paradigm because they obviously don't. But go ahead, twist away. It's fun to watch.

No, I will heed the advice of Baha'u'llah this time...it has been a few attempts; and will conclude our conversations, as I have with a few others. We are here to build unity not tear it down.

So for the sake of Unity, I leave it all alone and wish you always well and happy and I wish for you all your goals in life. If help is needed in the future, please ask we will be ready to help. We do not need these words to be our Faith.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So do I, but mine comes with mutual respect, without the need to make my own POV absolutely central to the cause. But I must say you lasted longer than usual this time.

Exit stage left exit stage left - Wiktionary

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

No, I will heed the advice of Baha'u'llah this time...it has been a few attempts; and will conclude our conversations, as I have with a few others. We are here to build unity not tear it down.

So for the sake of Unity, I leave it all alone and wish you always well and happy and I wish for you all your goals in life. If help is needed in the future, please ask we will be ready to help. We do not need these words to be our Faith.

See you again in a couple of days, Tony.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Waffle, complete waffle.
A marriage is a marriage, until divorce or death, for all time. And so his marriage during Muslim times remained a marriage when Babi laws took hold.

And so when he took a third wife he broke babi law.

He broke it all in action, in spirit, in integrity.

Any detached observer can see that a man who believes in a maximum of two wives and marries three has lost his integrity. You cannot waffle it away.

Many of the Bab's laws were never enacted nor enforced and never will be. The overwhelming purpose of the Bab's revelation was to enable His followers to recognise 'Him whom God shall make manifest' which they did overwhelmingly.

To prove your point you need to make an argument that the Bab's law had came into effect, and Baha'u'llah as a Babi broke it. Of course you can prove no such thing.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Are you claiming to be able to 'gaze with the eye of God'?
All clear and all knowing?

Imagine a World with NHJs and UHJs controlled by all knowing folks who know that they gaze with eye of God. They could never be wrong.
And it is unlikely that they would be replaced.

The Orwellian World arrived.

There is only one Universal House of Justice envisaged, not more than one as your post suggests.

The National Spiritual Assembly's are not infallible, and the Baha'i writings do not claim this.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Of course he did. This is how he usually described himself. It's part of the messiah complex, thinking you're God. It's what people with that psychological disorder do. Of course their actions never support their words.

God complex - Wikipedia

Yet Baha'u'llah's language was much the same as Christ, and Christianity has become the largest, most widespread religion on earth. I don't think the Christians would be too happy for you to tell me they are following someone with a psychological disorder.

 

[Vinayaka]

Yet Baha'u'llah's language was much the same as Christ, and Christianity has become the largest, most widespread religion on earth. I don't think the Christians would be too happy for you to tell me they are following someone with a psychological disorder.

Not a fair comparison, but go ahead, do what you must to defend your faith. Christians are some of the biggest critics of Baha'i, as you are well aware. Yes, they expanded by sword. One way to expand is just to kill everyone in your way. That doesn't say much for the actual validity or not of the faith. I respect the more liberal groups within Christianity.

I'm unsure of the language comparison, and don't know if Christ's words came across as egotistical or not, but perhaps someone more familiar with that can chime in.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Not a fair comparison, but go ahead, do what you must to defend your faith. Christians are some of the biggest critics of Baha'i, as you are well aware. Yes, they expanded by sword. One way to expand is just to kill everyone in your way. That doesn't say much for the actual validity or not of the faith. I respect the more liberal groups within Christianity.

I'm unsure of the language comparison, and don't know if Christ's words came across as egotistical or not, but perhaps someone more familiar with that can chime in.

But the pen is mightier than the sword!

On this thread there are no Christians criticising the Baha'i Faith. There is a Hindu criticising, so as you defend your faith, I will defend mine.

Many Vaishnavites believe Krishna was a man who dwelt on earth but was God incarnate and an invincible warrior. Does your God-complex analogy apply to Krishna and His followers?

 

[Vinayaka]

But the pen is mightier than the sword!

On this thread there are no Christians criticising the Baha'i Faith. There is a Hindu criticising, so as you defend your faith, I will defend mine.

Many Vaishnavites believe Krishna was a man who dwelt on earth but was God incarnate and an invincible warrior. Does your God-complex analogy apply to Krishna and His followers?

Not a fair comparison. The history is too far back. I have no actual opinion, other than to repeat I don't believe in the avatara concept personally. Vaishnavites also don't have this same 'I'm right and you're wrong' attitude with one notable sect differing. We mostly all get along, and I actually quite like Sri Vaishnava style temple, like the one in Pittsburgh in the US. They have beautifulo vibrations, and you get a decent dosage of peaceful vibration by worshipping there. But the SriVaishnava sampradayan focusses on Vishny, not an avatara of His.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Not a fair comparison. The history is too far back. I have no actual opinion, other than to repeat I don't believe in the avatara concept personally. Vaishnavites also don't have this same 'I'm right and you're wrong' attitude with one notable sect differing. We mostly all get along, and I actually quite like Sri Vaishnava style temple, like the one in Pittsburgh in the US. They have beautifulo vibrations, and you get a decent dosage of peaceful vibration by worshipping there. But the SriVaishnava sampradayan focusses on Vishny, not an avatara of His.

I'm good with the Vaishnavites as with the diversity of belief within Hinduism. There's a lot that's admirable and some that I don't agree with. Same deal with Christianity and Islam really. I'm happy to live and consort with peoples of all Faiths in a spirit of love and fellowship.

I've been thinking a lot about religious animosity and intolerance though.

Baha'u'llah's words on the matter:

Religious fanaticism and hatred are a world-devouring fire, whose violence none can quench. The Hand of Divine power can, alone, deliver mankind from this desolating affliction….

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 287-289

I have a sense that there is immense genuine goodwill and feeling between peoples of all genuine faith. On the other hand, for some groups we don't have to dig too deep to find deep animosity.

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm good with the Vaishnavites as with the diversity of belief within Hinduism. There's a lot that's admirable and some that I don't agree with. Same deal with Christianity and Islam really. I'm happy to live and consort with peoples of all Faiths in a spirit of love and fellowship.

I've been thinking a lot about religious animosity and intolerance though.

Baha'u'llah's words on the matter:

Religious fanaticism and hatred are a world-devouring fire, whose violence none can quench. The Hand of Divine power can, alone, deliver mankind from this desolating affliction….

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 287-289

I have a sense that there is immense genuine goodwill and feeling between peoples of all genuine faith. On the other hand, for some groups we don't have to dig too deep to find deep animosity.

I agree. Take the egos and the sense of 'my way is the best way' out of it, and we can all walk miles together.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Another explanation:

One purpose of Baha'u'llah's Tablets was to provide an opportunity for the Kings and rulers whom He wrote to avoid the impending chaos and convulsions that were to engulf many kingdoms (ie WWI). The leaders He addressed were all involved to some extent in WWI while Spain, China, and Japan were not directly involved.

@siti. This is also a good explanation. There are also two other explanations that comes to my mind. These Tablets which Bahaullah sent to the Kings and Rulers to Proclaim and announce that a New Revelation has come, is what was prophesied in the Islamic Traditions and Christian Prophecy.
In Islamic Traditions it is written when 23 years from the End of the sixth Millennium is passed, in the Holy Land, City of Akka, the Promised One shall announce that a new Revelation is come.

Now, year 1844 marks the end of the sixth Millennium and 23 years later is the year 1867, when Bahaullah began to Write Tablets to the rulers of the World, and sending them from Akka, announcing the Revelation. Now see how exactly these prophecies came to pass. As regards to the Biblical Prophecies, such years are also alluded to, but also, these Tablets to the Kings symbolically fulfil another Prophecy recorded in the Gospel, that when Christ returns, He gathers the kings on His left and right sides and judges between them.

 

[CG Didymus]

You need to be free of our ideas and look at this all for yourself.

The information you have to date is an information overload, it is now hard for you to see the forrest because of the trees.

Stand back, first consider if there is One God for all Humanity, this is the foundation to understand all else.

Regards Tony

This was my question... When was its summer and autumn and when and what do you see as the start of the winter.

You said Christianity was in its winter by 622AD. What happened after that? It died? Became irrelevant? I don't think so. It has evolved and is still going strong. With those same beliefs that Baha'is say are false... Jesus rose from dead and there is a devil and a hell, Jesus is part of a triune God.

Like I've said before, if those beliefs are wrong then Christianity has never been right. It's not in winter. If the Baha'is are right Christianity has been a false religion from the beginning.

 

[CG Didymus]

All these folks who have certitude about their faiths.
.... Don't make sense to me.
I've never heard of the Bahai Certitude.

They have a Book of Certitude. I wonder what it makes certituded.