Do you trust God?

[lukethethird]

Do you trust God?
Uh oh, what is it this time?

 

[Aupmanyav]

But it's in our best interests.

I fail to see no benefit in a so-believed God sending any so-believed prophets/sons/messengers/manifestations/mahdis. It is a Satanic act wrt. the strife they create.

You know the answer, the ones that Baha'u'llah says are true. The others? Sorry. But you are in luck. We have a special offer just for Hindus. Accept that Krishna is a manifestation of the Abrahamic God of the Bible, and not some incarnation of Vishnu, and you're in. All you have to do is reject the traditional beliefs of Hinduism like reincarnation.

Of course, you'll be expected to believe in all the manifestations that have been approved by Baha'u'llah. But you will not be required to believe in most all of the teachings of any of those religions... just believe and follow the teachings of the Baha'i Faith. How does that sound? Oh, and if you act now, you'll get a free bottle of my snake oil. You'll love it. It'll cure all your ills. (The fine print... may cause severe headaches and pain, paralysis, and in many cases, death).

Thanks for the magnanimous offer. I am an atheist Hindu. I neither believe in existence of Vishnu nor of Krishna. As for abandoning Hinduism and joining an Abrahamic religion, I really cannot think of a greater foolishness. Why would a free bird like to stay in a cage? Hinduism has no problem with my atheism.
Haha, you are offering snake-oil to an Indian! We have all kinds of snake oils, chameleon oils, monitor lizard oils here and bone powders too.

 

[KWED]

More than one religion has the correct conception of the one true God.
I know this from what my religion teaches.
I know this from what my religion teaches about who the one true God is.

How do you know that what your religion teaches is true?

 

[KWED]

I know I am not following a false god.

How?

 

[KWED]

You are not omnipotent at all. Only God is omnipotent.

You said that "omnipotent" means "doing only what is in your nature to do".
I do that, therefore I am omnipotent, just like god.

 

[KWED]

That's right, but since everything is not predestined free will does matter.

Do things happen that god does not know will happen?
Do things happen against god's will?

 

[KWED]

So, you are all-powerful? And you could do things like fly, but you chose not to? That is cool.

It is obviously not in my nature to fly. But if it was, I could do it because I am omnipotent.
(Trailblazer claimed that omnipotent means only being able to do what is in your nature to do.)

 

[KWED]

You are free to believe as you wish but you have to pick between Baha'u'llah and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad because both cannot be true Messengers of God,

The rational explanation is that neither are messengers of god.

given what Baha'u'llah wrote.
“Whoso layeth claim to a Revelation direct from God, ere the expiration of a full thousand years, such a man is assuredly a lying impostor. We pray God that He may graciously assist him to retract and repudiate such claim. Should he repent, God will, no doubt, forgive him. If, however, he persisteth in his error, God will, assuredly, send down one who will deal mercilessly with him. Terrible, indeed, is God in punishing! Whosoever interpreteth this verse otherwise than its obvious meaning is deprived of the Spirit of God and of His mercy which encompasseth all created things. Fear God, and follow not your idle fancies. Nay, rather follow the bidding of your Lord, the Almighty, the All-Wise.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 346

Ah, so only Baha'u'llah can be a true messenger of god because Baha'u'llah says so.
Seems reasonable.

 

[PureX]

The rational explanation is that neither are messengers of god.

Actually, the reasonable response would be that anyone and anything could be a message (messenger) from God. Because the determination as to what is a divine message has to be made by the person receiving it. No one else can.

Ah, so only Baha'u'llah can be a true messenger of god because Baha'u'llah says so.
Seems reasonable.

Maybe not to you, but you didn't receive the message, so your opinion is baseless.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yet there is ample evidence of people breaking the law and those people are in prison or executed.

The point was that we don't allow "free" will, and because God makes laws that he expects to be obeyed, he also limits "free" will. People aren't allowed to freely do what they please. Now if you say we are free to think and do things within certain limits, that is different. And in a make-believe perfect world, where everyone obeyed God's laws, we would align our will with the will of God. But I wouldn't call breaking laws to be exercising ones "free will", since there is a cost.

 

[CG Didymus]

The rational explanation is that neither are messengers of god.

Ah, so only Baha'u'llah can be a true messenger of god because Baha'u'llah says so.
Seems reasonable.

I, at one time was religiously gullible. I trusted what religious people told me. I assumed God was real. So, with that assumption, the Baha'i Faith sounds reasonable. God sends different messengers as people progress in their spiritual development. And Baha'u'llah is the latest one. Sounds believable... assuming there is a God, and he sends messengers. But then I learned every messenger said different things. That some messengers denied the validity of some of the others... That each religion had different concepts of God.

Well to that, the easiest explanation is that each people made up their own Gods, laws and beliefs. And Baha'is kind of agree with that. They say that each messenger "originally" gave similar teachings. That only "social" laws were different due to the cultures and the times they were living. But the spiritual message was always the same. But people changed, warped, misinterpreted and totally screwed up that "original" message.

But how would we know? There is no "original" message. We are supposed to take Baha'u'llah's word for it. That all religions are one... in essence. And that he is from the one true God and has a message that will lead us all into a time of peace and harmony. All we have to do is believe... and obey and submit and do everything he says. And believe everything he says as being the word of God.

The continuing problem that Baha'is face here is how do they prove Baha'u'llah is really a messenger from God. And, to begin with, can Baha'is even prove there is a God. It's not easy when they deny other "messengers" as phonies for the same reasons some people reject their prophet.

 

[Vinayaka]

I fail to see no benefit in a so-believed God sending any so-believed prophets/sons/messengers/manifestations/mahdis. It is a Satanic act wrt. the strife they create.
Thanks for the magnanimous offer. I am an atheist Hindu. I neither believe in existence of Vishnu nor of Krishna. As for abandoning Hinduism and joining an Abrahamic religion, I really cannot think of a greater foolishness. Why would a free bird like to stay in a cage? Hinduism has no problem with my atheism.
Haha, you are offering snake-oil to an Indian! We have all kinds of snake oils, chameleon oils, monitor lizard oils here and bone powders too.

Didymus was being facetious, Aup.

 

[Vinayaka]

The rational explanation is that neither are messengers of god.

Ah, so only Baha'u'llah can be a true messenger of god because Baha'u'llah says so.
Seems reasonable.

"I'm infallible because I say I'm infallible. An infallible messenger can't possibly be wrong about his own infallibility because he's infallible. Infallible people are never wrong."

This is the kind of reasoning you find in Bahaispeak. It's amazing.

 

[CG Didymus]

Why would a free bird like to stay in a cage?

That's a good point. I think the Baha'i Faith falls into the category of "organized" religions. The purpose is to get people to obey the laws and to conform. They have a "feast" meeting every 19 days and some Holy Day celebrations. They have a fast from sun rise to sunset during one of their 19-day months. But I don't know what else they do? Read the word and say Baha'is prayers? Is that really all that spiritually rewarding? The big deal and main focus when I was around them was to go out and "teach" the word... that the promised one had come.

 

[CG Didymus]

"I'm infallible because I say I'm infallible. An infallible messenger can't possibly be wrong about his own infallibility because he's infallible. Infallible people are never wrong."

This is the kind of reasoning you find in Bahaispeak. It's amazing.

It's not much different than what born again Christians say. This is what the Bible says, and the Bible is true and inerrant. Then Baha'is tell them, "No", your Holy Book is not inerrant, because our inerrant Holy Book says so.

 

[Vinayaka]

It's not much different than what born again Christians say. This is what the Bible says, and the Bible is true and inerrant. Then Baha'is tell them, "No", your Holy Book is not inerrant, because our inerrant Holy Book says so.

Incredibly similar, yes. "I'm right and you're wrong. How do I know? Because God revealed it to me through His messenger."
"My Guy is THE Guy."

But, actually, I find it sad and funny simultaneously. Mirrors don't seem to exist in that world.

 

[Trailblazer]

How do you know that what your religion teaches is true?

Because I independently investigated it.

Independent Investigation of Truth

 

[Trailblazer]

How?

Because I know what the true God is, according to my religion.

 

[Trailblazer]

You said that "omnipotent" means "doing only what is in your nature to do".
I do that, therefore I am omnipotent, just like god.

No, I said that an omnipotent God can only do what is according to His nature.
For example:
God cannot be weak because God is all-powerful
God cannot be stupid because God is all-knowing
God cannot he foolish because God is all-wise
God cannot be hateful because God is all-loving

You can only do what is in your nature as a human but that does not mean you are omnipotent.

 

[Trailblazer]

Do things happen that god does not know will happen?
Do things happen against god's will?

God knows everything that has ever happened or that will ever happen so things do not happen that God does not know about.

Humans cannot go against God's will because everything that happens is according to God's will.
God does not necessarily want everything humans choose to do to happen but God allows them to happen.