Ask About Islam

[MyM]

A non Islamic viewpoint?
What do you think Islam is?

So tell me about your religion.
Do you really think unbelievers deserve to go to Hell?




Do you think all the muslims that dont understand the Quran correctly are the same as unbelievers?


As the Quran says:

Those who deny Allah and His messengers, and (those who) wish to separate Allah from His messengers, saying: "We believe in some but reject others": And (those who) wish to take a course midway,-

They are in truth (equally) unbelievers; and we have prepared for unbelievers a humiliating punishment.

Quran 4:151-152


Do you know how to accurately identify who the true messengers of Islam are?
Are you able to recognise their signs?


Apparently the true messengers all have clear signs.

Then if they reject thee, so were rejected messengers before thee, who came with Clear Signs, Books of dark prophecies, and the Book of Enlightenment. Quran 3:84


But the signs of the true messengers keep getting rejected.


They say: "Why is not a sign sent down to him from his Lord?" Say: "Allah hath certainly power to send down a sign: but most of them understand not. Quran 6:37

So, you seem to be nitpickin a bit but ok I will TEACH you about ISLAM if you are truly interested.

Allah is the judge. PERIOD. My opinions do not matter when it comes to what is already ordained by Allah and his messenger pbuh.

But, I can have a say in helping others to understand.

There is a difference. There are "People of the Book"

Ahlul Kitab (People of the Book) consist of both believers and disbelievers as indicated in the Quran.
The disbelief of the disbelieving People of the Scripture, that include Jews and Christians, in our times does not expel them from being People of the Scripture.

"O people of the Scripture!: Why do you disbelieve in the verses [about Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)] of Allah, while you (yourselves) bear witness (to their truth)." Al ‘Imran, 3:70

"Say: O people of the Scripture! Why do you stop those who believe from the path of Allah, seeking to make it crooked, while you (yourselves) are witnesses? And Allah is not unaware of what you do". Al ‘Imran, 3:99

"Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Scripture stand for the right, they recite the Verses of Allah during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. They believe in Allah and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right and forbid evil and they hasten in good works; and they are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for Allah knows well those who are the pious." Al ‘Imran, 3:113-115

"And there are, certainly, among the people of the Scripture, those who believe in Allah and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before Allah. They do not sell the Verses of Allah for a little price, for them is a reward from their Lord. Surely, Allah is swift in account." Al ‘Imran, 3:199


The disbelief of the disbelieving People of the Scripture, that include Jews and Christians, in our times does not expel them from being People of the Scripture. So, the rules and regulations related to them regarding permissibility of eating their food and marrying their chaste women, in the Quran and Sunnah, are still applicable to them.

The times when the prophets came, the people at that time, those who believed in them, the true message at that time, like Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus, etc., they are considered people of the book who are the true believers as well. They believed in the prophet that was sent at that time. They all believe in the same message that God is One and the only one worthy of worship.


Believing in some prophets and not others is considered disbelief.

You quoted 2 verses back to back and yet the next one that goes with it.
Those who deny Our signs are ˹willfully˺ deaf and dumb—lost in darkness. Allah leaves whoever He wills to stray and guides whoever He wills to the Straight Way. Sura Al-An'am 6:39


As far as all the messengers having clear signs, Allah says in the Quran the truth. Allah commanded each Prophet to take a pledge from his nation that if Muhammad were sent in their time, they would believe in and support him.

And Allah knows best.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Do you really think unbelievers deserve to go to Hell?

Nobody knows what an individual soul deserves. Only G-d.
We DO know from both the Bible and Qur'an, that some souls will end up in hell for a period of time.
It is a warning, and not a threat as such.

Some people acknowledge the warning and try to avoid sinning .. and others scoff.

 

[KWED]

Was anything in there helpful?

So just to be clear - you did not initially believe in god but you read the Bible and decided that what it was saying was true, on the basis that is claimed to be true. You understand the circularity of the logic employed but don't see it as a problem.

 

[KWED]

I will TEACH you about ISLAM if you are truly interested.

But as you have repeatedly demonstrated, you don't "teach" anyone anything. You simply make unsupported assertions based on a conservative, fundamentalist dogma, and when people question these assertions you respond angrily with insults, and then fail to respond at all.

My opinions do not matter when it comes to what is already ordained by Allah and his messenger pbuh.
But, I can have a say in helping others to understand.

If Allah has ordained that they will understand, your "help" is not required.
If he has ordained that they will not understand, your "help" is of no use.

 

[KWED]

Nobody knows what an individual soul deserves. Only G-d.

Allah makes it very clear in the Quran that disbelievers go to hell.

We DO know from both the Bible and Qur'an, that some souls will end up in hell for a period of time.

"Allah has promised the disbelievers the fire of Hell, wherein they will abide eternally." - 9:68
"Indeed, those who disbelieve and commit wrong - never will Allah forgive them , nor will He guide them to a path. Except the path of Hell; they will abide therein forever." - 4:167

It is a warning, and not a threat as such.

"Do what I say or I will punish you" is both a threat and a warning. The two are essentially synonymous in this context.

Some people acknowledge the warning and try to avoid sinning .. and others scoff.

Do you heed the threats/warnings of all the other gods and follow their demands, or do you scoff?

 

[muhammad_isa]

"Do what I say or I will punish you" is both a threat and a warning. The two are essentially synonymous in this context.

If it is coming from a man, such as Putin .. yes, it is.
..but if it comes from G-d .. no, it isn't.
It only appears to be like that if you anthromorphise G-d.
i.e. think of G-d as like unto "a man in the sky" etc.

 

[KWED]

If it is coming from a man, such as Putin .. yes, it is.
..but if it comes from G-d .. no, it isn't.
It only appears to be like that if you anthromorphise G-d.
i.e. think of G-d as like unto "a man in the sky" etc.

What on earth are you on about?
Whether it comes from a man, a god, a talking fish or a computer AI, "Do what I say or I will punish you" is both a threat and a warning".

Also, have you read the Quran? It constantly anthropomorphises god.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Also, have you read the Quran? It constantly anthropomorphises god.

No. That is only the case if you imagine G-d as "a being" while you read it.
In any case, if you want to consider it a threat, then that's fine. You aren't likely to take any notice anyhow, because you don't believe G-d exists.

In other words, whatever you claim G-d is as per Qur'an is due to you own projection or understanding of the text.
..which is quite different from mine.

 

[joelr]

NOT NAME CALLING.

Oh sorry. I meant using a passive-aggressive victim mentality and claiming to be the victim of ridicule and criticism when in truth you are in a debate forum and this is the place to question ideas. Even though you have routinely used generalizations against atheists over and over (despite that you actually said “Don't generalize either it isn't nice.” #1406).


“no matter what I say to any athiest, they will always label us inferior beings because we don't believe in your beliefs.” #1188

“Athiests do NOT wish to be confronted with truths.” #1132 (except for every atheist here asking for evidence?)

My religion is correct to me, if you want critical thinking, go ask your athiests friends to tell you

An excellent way to summarize that you believe stories that do not hold up to critical thinking. But it's still inappropriate. This is not the proselytism thread? It's actually called "general religious debates"?????

 

[joelr]

If it is coming from a man, such as Putin .. yes, it is.
..but if it comes from G-d .. no, it isn't.
It only appears to be like that if you anthromorphise G-d.
i.e. think of G-d as like unto "a man in the sky" etc.

But there is no demonstration that this is coming from a God? These are just claims, same as Mormonism or any other revelatory religion.

 

[MyM]

Oh sorry. I meant using a passive-aggressive victim mentality and claiming to be the victim of ridicule and criticism when in truth you are in a debate forum and this is the place to question ideas. Even though you have routinely used generalizations against atheists over and over (despite that you actually said “Don't generalize either it isn't nice.” #1406).


“no matter what I say to any athiest, they will always label us inferior beings because we don't believe in your beliefs.” #1188

“Athiests do NOT wish to be confronted with truths.” #1132 (except for every atheist here asking for evidence?)




An excellent way to summarize that you believe stories that do not hold up to critical thinking. But it's still inappropriate. This is not the proselytism thread? It's actually called "general religious debates"?????

sure...I believe that is exactly what you do lol

but with athiests, I will not debate...actually why should I. Religion to you is considered ridiculous and you mock at it with sarcasm. You can judge me all you want even in the "debate" category. Doesn't mean I have to with you.

 

[KWED]

No. That is only the case if you imagine G-d as "a being" while you read it.

The god of the Quran is a being. It has consciousness and agency. It displays emotions. It has intentions and takes actions. Just because something doesn't have a physical body of flesh and bone doesn't mean it isn't a "being".

Being: A real or imaginary living creature or entity, especially an intelligent one. (OED)

In any case, if you want to consider it a threat, then that's fine.

It is irrelevant what I consider. "Do x or I will hurt you" is a threat, by definition.

Threat: A statement of an intention to inflict pain, injury, damage, or other hostile action on someone in retribution for something done or not done. (OED)

You aren't likely to take any notice anyhow, because you don't believe G-d exists.

Whether god exists or not is irrelevant. The god you believe in uses threats of violence to coerce people into belief or submission.

In other words, whatever you claim G-d is as per Qur'an is due to you own projection or understanding of the text.
..which is quite different from mine.

If you believe that god is not a being, and that he does not issue threats, then you are demonstrably wrong.

You claim the Quran is infallible and immutable, yet often struggle to accept what it says (a fairly common problem faced by Muslims, apparently). Words have meaning. You can't just redefine them because you are uncomfortable with their implications.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Whether god exists or not is irrelevant.

..not to me.

 

[England my lionheart]

sure...I believe that is exactly what you do lol

but with athiests, I will not debate...actually why should I. Religion to you is considered ridiculous and you mock at it with sarcasm. You can judge me all you want even in the "debate" category. Doesn't mean I have to with you.

You created this thread "Ask about Islam" in the debate section but really not to debate at all,it seems that you only want to proselytise and not enter into honest debate or answer straightforward questions,
the debate forum doesn't seem suitable for you imo,perhaps the Islam DIR where you can preach to the quoir would be a more suitable.

 

[MyM]

You created this thread "Ask about Islam" in the debate section but really not to debate at all,it seems that you only want to proselytise and not enter into honest debate or answer straightforward questions,
the debate forum doesn't seem suitable for you imo,perhaps the Islam DIR where you can preach to the quoir would be a more suitable.

I put it in actually comparison religions I believe then I got all the athiests combating with me. I can't remember exactly but so many were actually moved to the debate area. So many people were just horrible. I even had to put a few on ignore because they were not there to ask they were there to fight.

So, the "straight forward" questions I did try to answer to the best of my authority but it was those who denied and ridiculed my answers in a very sarcastic, extreme sense of mockery that now I refuse to answer athiests. If I put something for those who are wanting to know about Islam, they can ask sincerely. They move it here because people don't want to ask, they want to go to combat. So I put up with it for the sincerity of sincere people. If you criticize that, not my problem.

 

[England my lionheart]

I put it in actually comparison religions I believe then I got all the athiests combating with me. I can't remember exactly but so many were actually moved to the debate area. So many people were just horrible. I even had to put a few on ignore because they were not there to ask they were there to fight.

So, the "straight forward" questions I did try to answer to the best of my authority but it was those who denied and ridiculed my answers in a very sarcastic, extreme sense of mockery that now I refuse to answer athiests. If I put something for those who are wanting to know about Islam, they can ask sincerely. They move it here because people don't want to ask, they want to go to combat. So I put up with it for the sincerity of sincere people. If you criticize that, not my problem.

Some people can maybe be quite harsh but it shouldn't be taken personally,any invitation to any religion should be rigorously questioned and scrutinised to reveal it it's the word of a god or human,so far in human history nobody has been able to prove it's from a god and therefore debatable.

 

[MyM]

Some people can maybe be quite harsh but it shouldn't be taken personally,any invitation to any religion should be rigorously questioned and scrutinised to reveal it it's the word of a god or human,so far in human history nobody has been able to prove it's from a god and therefore debatable.

Ok, ask, but not sarcastically mock. Intelligent people discuss not criticize and even demean the person who is posting to the point of horribleness. They showed their true colors and they act on a behavior not worthy of dialogue. People do have limits.

 

[England my lionheart]

Ok, ask, but not sarcastically mock. Intelligent people discuss not criticize and even demean the person who is posting to the point of horribleness. They showed their true colors and they act on a behavior not worthy of dialogue. People do have limits.

Maybe instead of saying “Islam is 100% true” and therefore inviting debate perhaps “I believe that Islam is 100% true” would not imo.

 

[KWED]

..not to me.

1. Irrelevant to the substance of the argument - which you completely failed to address.
2. Way to ignore all the detailed responses I gave to all your points. Have you just given up? I accept that my arguments were pretty conclusive, but I didn't expect such abject capitulation.
Oh well, you aren't the first and won't be the last.

 

[KWED]

I put it in actually comparison religions I believe then I got all the athiests combating with me. I can't remember exactly but so many were actually moved to the debate area. So many people were just horrible.

With all due respect, pointing out the flaws in your claims is not "being horrible". Perhaps you have had a very sheltered life?

I even had to put a few on ignore because they were not there to ask they were there to fight.

Ah, is that why you don't respond to any of my points or questions? You must have a great deal of faith in your position is ignoring criticism is the only way you can deal with it.

So, the "straight forward" questions I did try to answer to the best of my authority but it was those who denied and ridiculed my answers in a very sarcastic, extreme sense of mockery that now I refuse to answer athiests.

The problem was that many of your answers were irrational, unreasonable, inaccurate or simply wrong. Merely repeating "because the Quran says" to every question about the reasoning behind Allah's prescriptions and proscriptions is hardly a tenable position.

If I put something for those who are wanting to know about Islam, they can ask sincerely.

And when your responses are flawed, others can point that out.
You have aptly demonstrated that your grasp on Islamic ideology is somewhat tenuous and based mainly on the propaganda of Islamic conservatives, rather than a considered appraisal of actual scripture and history.