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Gods limitations
- Thread starter Madmogwai
- Start date
Brian2
Veteran Member
Sounds like a trick question. If God could create that, it means He cannot lift the rock, if He can lift any rock, it means that He cannot create one He cannot lift. Either way God is proven less than omnipotent.
Erebus
Well-Known Member
Assuming you view God as omnipotent in the first place, it depends on the degree of omnipotence you're talking about as it can mean slightly different things.
If omnipotence means the ability to do anything possible then God could probably create a rock too heavy to lift but wouldn't be able to lift it. He might also be capable of creating entire worlds but not a square circle.
If omnipotence means the ability to do anything, including the impossible, then God could create a rock too heavy to lift and proceed to lift it anyway. This version of omnipotence is obviously incomprehensible to humans.
RabbiO
הרב יונה בן זכריה
Did you check to see how many times this question has been asked over time on the forum? Did you check to see how others have answered the question in the past?
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
God must have a twin! Only way to escape a paradox.
ppp
Well-Known Member
That wouldn't do it. Its the concept of can't that matters. Not the letters or the word.
ppp
Well-Known Member
The question breaks the law of non-contradiction. A thing cannot be both x and not-x in the same respect. Which makes the question (not you) irrational.
Truth in love
Well-Known Member
LOL this is been around a long time.
God is limited by eternal law. There are lines He won't cross
For example Alma 42:
13 Therefore, according to justice, the plan of redemption could not be brought about, only on conditions of repentance of men in this probationary state, yea, this preparatory state; for except it were for these conditions, mercy could not take effect except it should destroy the work of justice. Now the work of justice could not be destroyed; if so, God would cease to be God.
14 And thus we see that all mankind were fallen, and they were in the grasp of justice; yea, the justice of God, which consigned them forever to be cut off from his presence.
15 And now, the plan of mercy could not be brought about except an atonement should be made; therefore God himself atoneth for the sins of the world, to bring about the plan of mercy, to appease the demands of justice, that God might be a perfect, just God, and a merciful God also.
Heyo
Veteran Member
There are actually three horns to that dilemma. The third being that it can create the rock and lift it - and logic not applying to it. Which makes god irrational/paradoxical.
It shows God can't do the impossible. Physical rock can't be created that he can't lift, in fact, matter as in physical type existence is impossible to create. Everything is spiritual, and are shadows with respect to the sun, is an illusion, it's not really from the sun, but spirits all acting to a program from God that mimics as if the sun is the reason for the shadow, as if the birds fly due air mechanics and physics, but all this is not true, God's vision is what creates all things and holds them, and his authority regulates everything.
However, the rock hard heart is exactly like a falling rock that overtime, becomes too heavy for even God to lift and save.
There is many possible worlds that are not even possible that people imagine, but the fact if he would do x, it would have y effect, and y does not get accounted for when people say God could have create the world like this or like that.
God cannot create physical things even if he wanted to, its impossible. He can only create things through his word, vision, light, and command, and from his own life to their reality, and he is what gives everything its being, causes it to be.
Since he is limited to create things in his total image (like Adam (a)) or with talents and aspects of his image, his creation is tied to the truth of who he is. He creates in truth, not arbitrarily. He is that truth by which everything gets defined with respect to and gets their reality from.
The witness to all things, who without, we would not know the value or reality of anything or anyone or ourselves.
The native Americans have shown the link between animal world, nature, and the image of the human. There is no doubt even animals worship God to me.
If you want to talk to animals, go to a Native American Shaman, they can teach you how to enter that world and talk to them or even trees or other things.
However, the rock hard heart is exactly like a falling rock that overtime, becomes too heavy for even God to lift and save.
There is many possible worlds that are not even possible that people imagine, but the fact if he would do x, it would have y effect, and y does not get accounted for when people say God could have create the world like this or like that.
God cannot create physical things even if he wanted to, its impossible. He can only create things through his word, vision, light, and command, and from his own life to their reality, and he is what gives everything its being, causes it to be.
Since he is limited to create things in his total image (like Adam (a)) or with talents and aspects of his image, his creation is tied to the truth of who he is. He creates in truth, not arbitrarily. He is that truth by which everything gets defined with respect to and gets their reality from.
The witness to all things, who without, we would not know the value or reality of anything or anyone or ourselves.
The native Americans have shown the link between animal world, nature, and the image of the human. There is no doubt even animals worship God to me.
If you want to talk to animals, go to a Native American Shaman, they can teach you how to enter that world and talk to them or even trees or other things.
God has created rocks that I can't lift but other individuals can. Therefore God cannot lift it in my form but can lift it in another form.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
The point is, an omnipotent God can alter reality so that the challenge becomes do-able.
ppp
Well-Known Member
And my point is that you are not proposing an altering of reality. What you are proposing is the creation of a universe where the concept has been obscured. Not where the challenge has been surmounted.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Certainly an omnipotent omniscient God would be able to come up with a better solution than me.
ppp
Well-Known Member
Probably not. Doesn't your god still struggle with how to construct a universe where suffering cannot happen, but people still have free will?
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
It's a silly question, don't you think?
God has no limits.
ppp
Well-Known Member
Can your god kill himself?