dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
Not in my opinion. Suffering has a unique purpose, it causes a person to focus on what really matters to them.
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Gods limitations
- Thread starter Madmogwai
- Start date
ppp
Well-Known Member
Your omnipotent omniscient god is incapable of achieving said ends without suffering?
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
No, I don't think so. Suffering is the only way.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
Weak
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
Try to imagine a world without suffering. What would happen when a person goes without food or water. They wouldn't suffer, they wouldn't get thirsty or hungry. They would dehydrate and die. What about assaults? Why not just punch someone in the face, they wouldn't feel any pain, what's the harm?
Suffering is an important part of reality. The world would be a lesser place without it.
ppp
Well-Known Member
Then not omnipotent.
Nor omnibenevolent. But then you never claimed that one.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No. Whatever Rock that God might create He would also be able to lift.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
Suffering is an important part of the plan
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
An omnipotent/omniscient God could have employed another way to accomplish His purpose for humans, but since God didn't employ another way any logical person would realize that suffering was the best way to accomplish His purposes for humans since an all-knowing God would have to know the best way.
Anyone who thinks there could have been a better way than the way God chose is patently illogical because it is logically impossible for any human to know more than an all-knowing God.
Sheldon
Veteran Member
I wonder that so few people see that trying to use a logical impossibility to disprove God fails before it gets off the ground. And using a similar argument to prove God would likewise fail.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
Try to imagine a world where everyone is immortal and no one dies out of starvation, dehydration, or being punched to death. Voila. Problem solved.
ppp
Well-Known Member
Moreso than not suffering. Therefore evil.Suffering is an important part of the plan
Koldo
Outstanding Member
I have never read you stating it this way before, so I feel it is important to touch this point in particular: Whatever are God's purposes for humans doesn't automatically translate into what humans themselves would regard as being in their best interest. And that's not just because we might lack some knowledge, but also because we might have quite distinct goals.
Let me give you an analogy: Imagine we could create a conscious hammer and that such hammer is the only kind of hammer that exists (regular hammers don't exist in this scenario). It suffers whenever we use it to...well... smash stuff with it. It was however purposefully designed to smash stuff, and it serves our best interest to use it that way.... However, smashing stuff with it is not in the conscious hammer's own self-interest. So, what actually matters: The purpose we, the creators, assigned to the hammer or how the hammer itself perceives it's experiences?
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
God already has this in the realm of angels. Mortals must therefore serve a different purpose.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
As long as God does more good than harm, not evil.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That world is called the spiritual world and that is where we are all headed after we die physically.
It is also known as heaven or paradise.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I know that, but I don't think that humans can know more than God regarding what is actually in their best interest. Some humans might 'believe' they know more than God regarding what is in their best interest, but that is logically impossible, since no human can know more than an all-knowing God.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
That being...?
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
To improve in spite of our flaws. If humans were immortal, there would be no incentive to improve. A person could sit and do nothing all day and it would be no different than a person who is productive.