For Torath Mosheh Jews Only: Who is Hashem?

[David Davidovich]

We discussed this in previous threads. As I mentioned then the answer is the same. Hashem, being outside of time, had already dictated that certain actions lead to certain places. A person can either avoid them with certain actions, reach them slowly by other actions, or spead themselves into them with other actions. The time Noach's generation sped themselves into the direction even when Noach had tried to warn them for almost 100 years. Sodom and Gomorrah refused to set up socially correct and judicially correct courts, thus they sped themselves in the direction where the didn't even have 10 men who kept the 7 mitzvoth correctly. We also know that corruption in the justice system is a sign of social collapse.

Further, Lot's sons. We all know that associating with the wrong people and choosing to be in the worst place at the worst time can affect a person. Further, the oral explains that Lot's son in laws were fully integrated into the Sodom society.

Recent events are classic examples of this. Maddoff and FTX are good examples of people suffering because they were connected to the wrong people. Those people go down and they take them down with them.

The video below is a lesson from Lot's involvement in a city that had social and judicial injustice. This company was able to get out of the SVB system before things fell apart because they were warned, lik Lot, and didn't just there and let it ride.

So, are you saying that Hashem didn't actually 'cause it to rain down upon Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire' as you have explained before about other calamites, and that somehow the people of Soom and Gomorrah's behavior caused some sort of 'natural' environmental consequence to befall their cities? And I think that you explained something similar about the Noachian flood? And is this the same thing that happened with Uzzah at 2 Samuel 6:1-7 and 1 Chronicles 13:9-12? Or does the Hebrew language actually say that Uzzah died of natural consequences rather than Hashem striking him down? Also, what about Dathan and Abiram who rebelled against Moses and Aaron? Did Hashem cause the earth to open up and swallow them and their followers or was that just a natural consequence of them behaving against their own interests? (Numbers 26:8-10) And there are tons of other examples of incidents like these that I have read in the Hebrew text before, therefore, it is difficult for me to look at all these incidents as Hashem not reacting or retaliating against these bad or dangerous behaviors and that only natural consequences occur when people do the wrong thing.

 

[dybmh]

Not theories. They were "speculating," which is fine.

Besides, the Rambam's own son explained the Rambam very well in his book (מלחמות השם) and in some of his other writings. Thus, the speculation is just that, speculation. What Avraham ben-Rambam wrote about his own father is not.

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Theories are speculations.

 

[dybmh]

What you quoted is not at all anything like what I wrote. That is the reverse. Find me a statement where Chabad says.

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I have, multiple times. Post #295, and the post you replied to.

"G‑d’s emotional attributes are the source for the world ... Chassidus teaches that Hashem’s attributes are reflected in the human soul."

The statement in hebrew means "Hashem has emotions like a human" LIKE. Not exactly the same. Like.

A reflection is LIKE the object that is reflected.

 

[David Davidovich]

BTW, I read your statement here and I will say the following.

I would be willing to donate $50 to your favorite charity if you can find some place where I wrote:

"Well, look at how the Jews have suffered' in a way that it trumps all the other suffering that we were discussing."

I can give you hint. That is not a quote of anything I have written and I don't make those kinds of statements. Are you sure that is something that are mistakenly attributing me? Also, are you sure what you wrote is a quote? You have quote marks at the start of that statement, but I don't think you are quoting me.

No, you don't have to worry about any $50 donation. Also, what I actually said was:

you have said something like, 'Well, look at how the Jews have suffered' in a way that it trumps all the other suffering that we were discussing.

So, I wasn't saying that that is exactly what you said, but that may have been something like you said or how you said it. Also, I didn't use double quotations, but I only used single quotations. And in the United States, double quotations are used when someone is directly quoting someone or something. And if a direct quotation is inside of that quoation, then single quotations are also used. But since what I was stating was not inside a quoation that already was in my sentence, I was using the single quotation as a way of showing what you may have said, while not stating that what may have been said was what you actually had said. But it will take me time to look up the threads to find those types of occurrences. Plus, I would like to say that the way that I read them could have been a matter of how I interpreted them. Therefore, please don't worry about this, but just wait until I find those occurrences. However, that is what I thought at the time, but I decided not to say anything at the time.

 

[dybmh]

Show me evidence of something I brought up which was ummmm fake.

The update wiped it out. You posted something which you copied and pasted into a screenshot, attributed it to Saadia Gaon, commenting on Numbers 23, but it doesn't look like there exists comments by Saadia Gaon on this chapter.

But, since the screenshot is gone. Here's a current example. See below:

I went through that video rather carefully. No one asks "about what those statements mean in the other videos". I doubt you even watched the video before posting it. So, it's not that this video is fake, but it doesn't say what you're claiming it says.

Those are not my statements they are yours. Maybe you don't understand what I actually wrote.

I didn't say you said it. We were not discussing Torath Ehav. This is the question in the OP. The idea of Hashem without emotions comes from Rambam. I was talking about Rambam and the question posed in the OP, not about you.

I do understand what you wrote. If you would quote my statements completely instead of snipping them out, perhaps you would not lose the context.

 

[David Davidovich]

BTW I don't conviently skip questions.

A few you have.
Jewish Meaning of Leviathan
For Torath Mosheh Jews Only: Olam Ha-Bah (The World To Come)

 

[David Davidovich]

In terms of Daniel, because it was written in a mix of Hebrew and Aramaic with a lot of imagery - some of which Daniel was not allowed to fully understand. Also, because verses 1, 2, and 3, are connected. As well as verses 4 to the end. Again, one can read Daniel based on one verse and even then even Daniel was told he was not allowed to fully make certain things clear. Essentially, it is talking about how eventually there will be a resurrection of the dead with a focus on those who have done the mitzvoth of Hashem.

Interesting. Hebrew text written down for us to not understand.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

The update wiped it out. You posted something which you copied and pasted into a screenshot, attributed it to Saadia Gaon, commenting on Numbers 23, but it doesn't look like there exists comments by Saadia Gaon on this chapter.

Here, let me help you out with that then because I don't present fake information. In a few weeks I will provide you with the actual Arabic, mentioned below.

 

[David Davidovich]

This is a bit of a strange response. I don't respond to all of your questions with long answers, only when you are asking for the detail. Further, I respond with videos when it is appropriate based on your question whether than us writing back and forth for days/weeks/months about something that a simple video can answer in 5 to 10 minutes.

It's just that some of your answers seem evasive. Or perhaps at least that's my perception.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

A few you have.
Jewish Meaning of Leviathan
For Torath Mosheh Jews Only: Olam Ha-Bah (The World To Come)

I didn't conviently skip them. The reality is that some point we all have lives. I have a family to provide for and children to raise. I am also writing books and I work in hi-tech. So, at the end of the day I am not sitting in front of my computer all day waiting for someone to post a topic. There are times I don't even notice a topic on this site. I.e. this site is not my first priority, it is not even in the top 20. It is a, "When I have time kind of thing." And most of the time I really don't have time and I should be spending it on something else. Like right now. It is 07:18 here in Israel. I really need to eat breakfast.

Besides, a lot of these questions you ask can find answers for yourself by meeting with a rabbi in your area and asking him. It is a lot faster than months of posts on RF.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

It's just that some of your answers seem evasive. Or perhaps at least that's my perception.

Some of the questions are evasive and some of them I have answered several different times. There are also some times where you don't "appear" to have accepted that the answer is what it is. You don't have to accept it, you can think differently, but it doesn't change the fact that if I give 20 different Torath Mosheh Jewsish, that is it. You can reject them, but you have been provided with answer if I provide you will all of them I know.

There is also that time thing. If you want a non-evasive answer with finality, then a phone conversation is a lot faster than writing, and writings, and writing, and spell checking and spell checking, etc. At some point we all "supposidly" have other things to do. At some point the questions don't go on forever. If you are given a foundation for something, then you should be able to from there.

When I have questions, I search through all the sources I collect constantly and if I don't know I physically go talk to the older people who know things in my community. Sometimes that is a rabbi sometimes it is not.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Interesting. Hebrew text written down for us to not understand.

Hebrew text written down for Jews to have, to derive what we need from it, but also to understand there are some things that until they happen - they will be over our head. Kind of like debating commercial air travel two thousand years ago. If someone saw the future back then there is only so far their understanding of what they were seeing, with their time frame knowledge base, ould take them when it won't happen for another 2,000 years. When it happens, someone in that time can say, this is exactly what such and such wrote thousands of years ago. He was right, now it is clear. I can't speak for the rest of the world but that goes a long way for Torah based Jews.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I didn't say you said it. We were not discussing Torath Ehav. This is the question in the OP.

Okay, so don't direct it at me. Direct it at the person who wrote the OP. If you are answering him, putting my name on it won't help him.

 

[dybmh]

Here, let me help you out with that then because I don't present fake information. In a few weeks I will provide you with the actual Arabic, mentioned below.

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None of this is commenting on Numbers 23.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

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I went through that video rather carefully. No one asks "about what those statements mean in the other videos". I doubt you even watched the video before posting it. So, it's not that this video is fake, but it doesn't say what you're claiming it says.

Acutally, I have watched this video a lot over the years. The two people, the guy in the first part and the girl in the second part provide some interesting responses what they claim to know about science, the guy, and the girl, about history. I especially like his response to her about whether she feels the air that she breaths, even though she can't see it, and also the reference to American Indenpence and have used that arguement. At the very beginning of this part 2, which is his response to the guy what Hashem is comparison to what Hashem created. Thus, he defined what he means about what Hashem is in the same way as the sources I posted did.

 

[dybmh]

Okay, so don't direct it at me. Direct it at the person who wrote the OP. If you are answering him, putting my name on it won't help him.

You've lost the entire context of the quote.

We... are discussing the OP's question. Both of us. That is what is happening in this thread. You made a statement about about Chabad not being the only Jewish group. I was redirecting you back to the OP. I wasn't saying "you said X.Y, or Z". I was restating the question in the OP to get you back on topic.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

None of this is commenting on Numbers 23.

You claimed that I posted fake information. I have refuted that. Besides, if you look carefully in the middle and bottom right I beleive you will see the section from (במדבר כג).

Here let me blow it up for you a bit and then you can go back and look at what I posted.

And again, what I posted in response to the claim that I posted something that was fake.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

You've lost the entire context of the quote.

Actually, I haven't. What you wrote is not relevant to what I have posted. Thus, I have not been arguing with you on statements that you write from your own viewpoint. There was a post earlier where you claimed I stated something using your own words not mine.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

So, I wasn't saying that that is exactly what you said, but that may have been something like you said or how you said it.

That is still a problem. It is nothing "like" anything I have written and would never write something "like" that at all.

 

[David Davidovich]

And there are tons of other examples of incidents like these that I have read in the Hebrew text before, therefore, it is difficult for me to look at all these incidents as Hashem not reacting or retaliating against these bad or dangerous behaviors and that only natural consequences occur when people do the wrong thing.

Since ha satan is not supposed to be a real sentient being and is just an extension of Hashem, then who actually caused the death, pain and destruction in these verses?

Job 1:6-22
Job 2

And similarly, what's going on in these parallel sets of verses? And sorry that I can't quote the entire book of 2 Samuel and 1 Chronicles. But this is the best that I can do.

2 Samuel 24:1-17
1 Chronicles 21:1-17

And then there are the 10 plagues against Egypt because that is all that I want to post about tonight.

Exodus 7:14-Exodus 12:36