For Torath Mosheh Jews Only: Who is Hashem?

[Ehav4Ever]

The statement in hebrew means "Hashem has emotions like a human" LIKE. Not exactly the same. Like.

Bingo, so now you have to explain to David who wrote the OP, exactly what your concept of Hasidut says a "god emotion" is and what is the difference between a god emotion and a human emotion is - if they are not exactly the same. You can also explain of there are human emotions that are lacking in "god emotions" and then explain how one knows when a "god emotion" is happening and when "god emotions" take place. Past, present, and future.

Now, you can start that process.

 

[David Davidovich]

This is a bit of a strange response. I don't respond to all of your questions with long answers, only when you are asking for the detail. Further, I respond with videos when it is appropriate based on your question whether than us writing back and forth for days/weeks/months about something that a simple video can answer in 5 to 10 minutes.

Sorry, but I don't think that I have ever asked for the detail. Also, I don't think that I've looked at very many of your videos that were simple and that were only 5 to 10 minutes.

 

[dybmh]

Bingo, so now you have to explain to the David who wrote the OP, exactly what your concept of Hasidut says a "god emotion" is and what is the difference between a god emotion and a human emotion is - if they are not exactly the same. Then you have to explain how one knows when a "god emotion" is happening and when "god emotions" take place. Past, present, and future.

Now, you can start that process.

No, I actually don't. Here, let's look at the OP.

I just looked up a verse that I first heard about years ago, which was explained to me (who did not happen to be a Torath Mosheh Jew) that God loved his people so much, that if you went up against them, it was like touching the pupil of his eye. And the way that it was explained to me those many years ago was that this was an analogy of the pain that was felt by touching a human being's eye pupil. Also, even though I foundseveral translations that render Zechariah 2:8 this way, (including the New World Translation), the majority of translations use the words "the apple of his eyes." However, from the information that I looked up, those terms are supposed to be related and interchangeable and have a Biblical origin.

click here: Apple of My Eye - Bible Meaning, Origin and Defintion (biblestudytools.com)

​

OK.

But anyway, from what I understand from Torath Mosheh Jews is that they don't believe that Hashem has any emotions or feelings.

Woh. Who told you that? Hashem doesn't have ANY emotions or ANY feelings. That doesn't make sense to me. Torath Mosheh literaly means "The Teaching of Moses". Moses didn't teach that.

Therefore, I ask them the questions: Who is Hashem? What are his motives? What does humankind mean to him? Why did he even create humans? Why did he even create anything? What's in it for him? Why does the Hebrew text say that he's patience and forgiving and that he cares about humankind when apparently, he doesn't, since he doesn't have any emotions?

Again, doesn't have ANY emotions. I'm thinking none of this would be an issue if Hashem has some sort of emotions and some sort of feelings.

Also, why do Torath Mosheh Jews and Orthodox Jews even care, and what are their motives and how do they feel about Hashem? Especially, since they don't believe that Hashem loves them or has any feelings for them.

Has ANY feelings... Well, you're 100% correct to ask the question, as I said from the very beginning, you are asking the right questions. This does not match what Moses taught.

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Ehav, see? The OP is asking the question because of the extreme postion some people take which is in opposition to that what is written. The first paragragh is bringing an example which is supposed to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that Hashem has emotions of some kind. Tanach is not describing a god lacking ANY emotions or ANY feelings. The word ANY was repeated several times.

Without ANY emotions, without ANY feelings, it is natural and normal to wonder why did Hashem do anything, and why do we Jews do anything. Is it all a selfish motive? Is it all self interest?

But the OP is not asking for details, about what sort of emotions Hashem has, how are they similar, how are they different. There is no risk of confusing Hashem with something physical.

And that's why I answered the way I did. I don't agree with the idea, but, it's not entirely selfish for those who do. It's like putting on a winter jacket and encouraging others to do the same. Yes, I want to stay warm, but I want you to stay warm too.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Sorry, but I don't think that I have ever asked for the detail. Also, I don't think that I've looked at very many of your videos that were simple and that were only 5 to 10 minutes.

So, you are saying you don't want detail?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

But anyway, from what I understand from Torath Mosheh Jews is that they don't believe that Hashem has any emotions or feelings. Therefore, I ask them the questions: Who is Hashem? What are his motives? What does humankind mean to him? Why did he even create humans? Why did he even create anything? What's in it for him? Why does the Hebrew text say that he's patience and forgiving and that he cares about humankind when apparently, he doesn't, since he doesn't have any emotions?

So, here is part of the OP. There 7 questions presented. Are you saying that all you are looking for are yes or no answers? Also, 7 questions "appear to me" to imply you want details.

Also, in the OP you presented the following.

Also, even though I foundseveral translations that render Zechariah 2:8 this way, (including the New World Translation), the majority of translations use the words "the apple of his eyes." However, from the information that I looked up, those terms are supposed to be related and interchangeable and have a Biblical origin.

This also "seems" to imply that you are looking for detail because "translations" have been brought into the picture. If your translation contradicts or does not fully illuminate what the Hebrew text, and thousands of years of various Torath Mosheh views, are you then only looking for an answer of "no that translation is not correct?"

Also, in the thread on capital punishment you asked some very specific questions received some simplified answers but it did not appear that you were satisfied with the answers. That was before I even entered the thread. Again, this gives me the impression that you were looking for lots of "details."

The Torah and Capital Punishment

I would like to know from Torath Mosheh Jews: Since Torath Mosheh Jews are so adherent to the Torah, do you still follow the edicts of capital punishment found in the Torah such as stoning, etc.? click here: Capital punishment in the Bible - Wikipedia

www.religiousforums.com

 

[Ehav4Ever]

No, I actually don't. Here, let's look at the OP.

Okay. So then for my sake, can you provide the answers to the questions I presented from your perspective of Hasidut?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

A few you have.
Jewish Meaning of Leviathan
For Torath Mosheh Jews Only: Olam Ha-Bah (The World To Come)

Also, on the issue of details. If you don't want detail on your questions why would you want me responding to these two topics. Are the answers you have received in them so far no sufficient? If not, why not and what level of response are you looking for? Also, in the second one you posted videos - I thought you didn't like that format. Maybe I am mistaken?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Since ha satan is not supposed to be a real sentient being and is just an extension of Hashem, then who actually caused the death, pain and destruction in these verses?

Job 1:6-22
Job 2

And similarly, what's going on in these parallel sets of verses? And sorry that I can't quote the entire book of 2 Samuel and 1 Chronicles. But this is the best that I can do.

2 Samuel 24:1-17
1 Chronicles 21:1-17

And then there are the 10 plagues against Egypt because that is all that I want to post about tonight.

Exodus 7:14-Exodus 12:36

@dybmh - This sounds like something you may need to address.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Since ha satan is not supposed to be a real sentient being and is just an extension of Hashem, then who actually caused the death, pain and destruction in these verses?

Job 1:6-22
Job 2

First question for you. Do you consider Job to be describing historical events? Next question, what is your assessment on who wrote Job and why?

This will help in knowing what level of detail you are looking for in the answer.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Theories are speculations.

No, they are not.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

But anyway, from what I understand from Torath Mosheh Jews is that they don't believe that Hashem has any emotions or feelings.

Backtracking a bit. Can you give your definition for the words "emotions" and "feelings?" Also, can you provide where your definition comes from? I.e. something you self defined or something based on an authorative source for word definitions in English. Thanks.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Since ha satan is not supposed to be a real sentient being and is just an extension of Hashem, then who actually caused the death, pain and destruction in these verses?

Also, concerning this question. Before I answer. Do you remember what I posted earlier about Hashem being the creator of time and not being within time. I.e. as a metaphor time is something created, no different than, space, humans, animals, etc. Time being the ability for there to be past-present-future, this being created by Hashem.

Does that make sense to you?

 

[dybmh]

Okay. So then for my sake, can you provide the answers to the questions I presented from your perspective of Hasidut?

I'll do my best.

what your concept of Hasidut says a "god emotion" is

an expression of a relationship

and what is the difference between a god emotion and a human emotion is - if they are not exactly the same.

God's emotions are not limited

You can also explain of there are human emotions that are lacking in "god emotions"

Can you rephrase this? We already agreed that God is not lacking anything.

and then explain how one knows when a "god emotion" is happening and when "god emotions" take place. Past, present, and future.

God's emotions are always happening. That is "known" from:

כִּי־טוֹב יְהֹוָה לְעוֹלָם חַסְדּוֹ וְעַד־דֹּר וָדֹר אֱמוּנָתֽוֹ׃​

For the Lord is good; his loving kindness is everlasting; and his faithfulness endures to all generations.​

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Ehav, see? The OP is asking the question because of the extreme postion some people take which is in opposition to that what is written. The first paragragh is bringing an example which is supposed to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that Hashem has emotions of some kind. Tanach is not describing a god lacking ANY emotions or ANY feelings. The word ANY was repeated several times.

Actually, no. Because this thread is not a stand alone thread. It is a continuation of several other threads previous to this one. In those threads the focus was, in summary, if a god is caring and has emotions why:
1. Command people to declare war.
2. Flood the world.
3. Destroy cities.
4. Value one group of people over another.
5. Allow executions to be sanctioned.
6. etc.

Thus, I know what the roots of the 7 questions mentioned in the OP are because I have been involved in the discussions mentioned pretty much from the start. Now, with that being said I actually early on provided information describing both positions on the nature of Hashem and how at some point they are the same if you know what questions to ask.

So, since I now know that your earlier statements were directed at me. Please address the questions I presented and then we can really discuss them. I will list them below.

1. Explain what your concept of Hasidut says a "god emotion" and how that definition is the same or different from the standard "English" definition of what the word "emotion" means.
2. From your same sources, show what they say the difference(s) between a god emotion and a human emotion is.
3. From your sources, does a god experience fear (like a human), anger (like a human), procrastination (like a human), deppression?
4. You can also explain, from your sources in Hasidut, which, if any, human emotions that are lacking in "god emotions" and then explain how one knows when a "god emotion" is happening and when "god emotions" take place. Past, present, and future.

Please provide what the Hasidut you learned states, and not your personal opinion.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

an expression of a relationship

Please provide the source for that exact statement. It seems a bit limited and not directed towards the English word "emotion." i.e. do you have a source Hasidut that states "Emotion is an expression of a relationship."

 

[Ehav4Ever]

God's emotions are not limited

Are you saying that in Hasidut there is a source that says that god has bouts of depression, fear, and uncontrolable anger?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Can you rephrase this? We already agreed that God is not lacking anything.

Yes, are you saying that there is a source in Hasidut that says, for example, that god experience fear the way a human does. I.e. there are humans who fear for their lives because something/someone more powerful than them is threatening them. Are you saying that in Hasidut there is a source that says god, "fears for his life because something/someone more powerful than them is threatening him?"

 

[dybmh]

@dybmh - This sounds like something you may need to address.

We need to go back to the original question:

it is difficult for me to look at all these incidents as Hashem not reacting or retaliating against these bad or dangerous behaviors and that only natural consequences occur when people do the wrong thing.

I agree. It is difficult to read these incidents are Hashem NOT REACTING. I think Hashem is definitely reacting.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

God's emotions are always happening. That is "known" from:

כִּי־טוֹב יְהֹוָה לְעוֹלָם חַסְדּוֹ וְעַד־דֹּר וָדֹר אֱמוּנָתֽוֹ׃​

For the Lord is good; his loving kindness is everlasting; and his faithfulness endures to all generations.​

1st question here. Where in Hasidut is it claimed to know that "god's emotions are always happening" based on (כי טוב ה" חסדו ועד דור ודר אמונתו)?

Further, are you saying that based on Hasidut, w/o navuah, there is a claim to know at any given moment what emotion Hashem is having at any given time? For example, during the earthquake that happened recently in Turkey I don't of any person who was having every emotion always happening. Further, their emotions were limited to the devistation they experienced. i.e. fear, anger, sadness. Most weren't happy, sad, joyful, angry, enraged, etc. all at the same time because most humans don't experience every emotion all at once.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Can you rephrase this? We already agreed that God is not lacking anything.

Here is what I mean. The below is how Habad here in Israel describes (רגש) in relation to a human being. Are you saying that in the Hasidut you hold by the exact definition is how god operates and exists at his own level?