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  1. J

    Will the real Islam please stand up

    The Bible is predicting what will happen. If MP is the only one who has done it in history then it would be illogical to say it means nothing. Now , you have the right to be illogical, but I'm not sure how well that would serve one in a real debate
  2. J

    Will the real Islam please stand up

    I meant the Arabs had ancestral cultural and religious links to Jews as descendants of Abraham. I was referring to Y DNA studies suggesting Arabs / Quraysh and Cohanim shared a recent common paternal ancestor who lived approx. 2 to 4 k ybp. So genetically Jews and Arabs are more closely...
  3. J

    Will the real Islam please stand up

    Do you not believe these things happened in the days of MP? There are both historical non Muslim accounts as well as secular scientific evidence that these things actually happened. So how can you not buy it?
  4. J

    Will the real Islam please stand up

    The basic idea 1. Quraysh is related to the Jews 2. The Kaba was used to worship God of Abraham but paganism crept in during the pre-Islamic period 3. MP established rituals that correspond to Jewish holidays; and MP removed the pagan idols from the Kaba These facts are now already being...
  5. J

    Will the real Islam please stand up

    The Koran was written sometime before 660 CE according to both Islamic and secular sources. Muawiya rose to power after that. The Hadith texts were written after Muawiya rose to power
  6. J

    Will the real Islam please stand up

    After reading Isaiah 19 and Matt 24 we see that they suggest A savior for the Egyptians will come (Isaiah 19:20) who will 1. unite Assyrians and Egyptians on the border of Egypt at an altar for the worship of the God of Abraham and unite them in performing sacrifices. 2. They will do it at a...
  7. J

    Will the real Islam please stand up

    First of all the suggestion that there were any Satanic verses is listed only in the Umayyad Sharia text. They are not in the Koran. So that just about kills the story. In other words, if you are going with the real Islam before the Umayyads don't quote stuff from books that were written...
  8. J

    Will the real Islam please stand up

    The problem is that this is a vast topic that draws on many different areas of secular study. We are talking about changing an entire narrative of our understanding of history of the period based on secular scientific studies in the age that Islam was born. To go into depth would require...
  9. J

    Will the real Islam please stand up

    Yes the idea is completely mine. I read the Bible several times in college and noticed how Isaiah 19 seem to be describing MP with the Plague and uniting of Egyptians and Assyrians on the border. Then I began digging for details and discovered the story of Onias IV. However, there were still...
  10. J

    Will the real Islam please stand up

    Wait, accepting secular evidence is called dumbing down of America?
  11. J

    Will the real Islam please stand up

    You are right the Arab historians who wrote in the age of the Umayyads and later, describe stories in which MP inflicted unspeakable cruelties on innocent people for not following his religion. So the question is who were the Umayyads? How well did they understand MP and his message? Were they...
  12. J

    Will the real Islam please stand up

    Thanks, just shared it with a Christian moderator on one of the largest Christian Apologetics forums. She thought it genuinely made sense. People didn't immediately accept the heliocentric model either, even though the evidence was there. The secular evidence is now in place to question what the...
  13. J

    Will the real Islam please stand up

    I don't expect you to be impressed with what is in the Sharia. Most of it was created by in the closet pagans etc such as the Umayyads. What you need to be impressed by is the secular evidence for how MP fulfilled Isaiah 19 and Matt 24 if anything.
  14. J

    Will the real Islam please stand up

    I have not claimed he is in the Song of Solomon. I claimed he is the one in Isaiah 19 and Matt 24. The only people who place full faith in all the Hadiths in Sahih Bukhari are the Ahle Hadith only i.e. the wahabi. These are your brothers who helped you win the peace dividend by sacrificing...
  15. J

    Do extremists follow the example of Muhammad?

    You are right the Arab historians who wrote in the age of the Umayyads and later, describe stories in which MP inflicted unspeakable cruelties on innocent people for not following his religion. So the question is who were the Umayyads? How well did they understand MP and his message? Were they...
  16. J

    Will the real Islam please stand up

    MP and the Rasidun offered peaceful coexistence to both the Christian Byzantine and the Axumite Empires. The Axumite Empire accepted so no war was waged on them. The Byzantines rejected the offer so war was waged on them The Byzantine Empire was being led by a a cruel, lying, stealing...
  17. J

    Will the real Islam please stand up

    Can you please elaborate? I'm not sure what conservatism has to do with anything. All the true disciples of MP agreed and ratified the text of the Uthmanic Koran, including Ali. The problem that MP and his true disciples such as Abu Bakr, Umer, Othman and Ali faced was that a large number of...
  18. J

    Will the real Islam please stand up

    The followers of real Islam in my opinion are described in Koran 3:199. They and their knowledge was wiped out by the Umayyads who replaced it with the Umayyad Shariah with its fabricated stories that make Muhammad the prophet (MP) look like a cruel and disgusting person to allow the Umayyads...
  19. J

    Do extremists follow the example of Muhammad?

    So much, indeed, was Muhammad indebted to the Jews for a great portion of his teaching on this and other subjects that the Qur'an has been described as a compendium of Talmudic Judaism. (Blair, The Sources of Islam, p. 55). One finds many of the Old Testament stories of the prophets reproduced...
  20. J

    Do extremists follow the example of Muhammad?

    "Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah." (Qur'an 33:21)
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