‘Jesus was WITH GOD’ therefore Jesus WAS GOD?

[YoursTrue]

Good Post - It is the perspective that matters --- the Fundamentalist wishes to fit the narrative into the box they have constructed for God - making the meaning of the text conform to some story they have concocted about God.

I say who cares about my perspective, my "Personal interpretation" -- what did this mean to the audience for which it was created - what did the box these folks have for God Look like .. what was their Personal interpretation .. - and we now have a pretty good idea what these folks believed - from the history - archaelology .. texts from the other peoples at the time .. what their religious beliefs were .. linguistic relationships .. such as Hebrew is derived from Canaanite ..

and the funny thing .. is that the Bible conforms perfectly with what we find - now some of these ancient stories make sense .. can be made sense of ..

"Bne e-aliem" Sons of the Elohim -- Sons of the Gods actually .. or God depending on Context .. this Phrase used quite a number of times in the Bibe ---each time there are many Gods in the Picture .. which is perfectly fine because the Israelites believed in many Gods .. but this did not make them polytheistic .. as they were only to worship one. ... and this is what YHWH is Jealous of .. those other Gods .. who he battles throughout the OT. One of the Sons of El -- duking it out for El's position as Cheif God on Earth --- El fades into the background .. still "most high" in the heavens though .. Still head of the Divine Council .

Now in reality - not only did the Israelites believe in these other Gods .. they spent most of their time worshiping these other Gods .. never engaging in Sole YHWH worship for any length of time. "THE BIBLE TELLS US SO" That is the story the Bible tells us . completely conforming to the history/archaeology .. happilly sacrificing children -- or unhappilly but doing it never the less .. Just as the Bible Tells us -

When you went to a YHWH temple .. "back in the Day" .. you would find Asherah Poles .. Standing Stone (which represented the God - YHWHs consort in this case) along with the requisite Male and Female Temple Prostitutes .. and should the necessity arise .. needing to defeat an enemy God .. a "High Place" should a sacrifice of the first Fruits be required.




NO G -- The "Council of EL" was not a council of human magistrates .. to the Israelites - This is not God standing in the midst of .. and defeating some Human Judges --

" You are Gods -- Sons of the Supreme one" Says YHWH -- addressing those present in the Divine Assembly of the Gods ?

How on earth does one figure that these are human magistrates .. being referred to as "Sons of the Supreme one" ? The same ones that are supposedly up in heaven .. attending some function with the Most High" -- Satan happening to be among these Sons of the Elohim .. and now you are claiming that Satan was a human as well ? these Sons of God .. up in the heaven .. having cordial chit chat with "The Most HIgh" .. are Human magistrates .. .. some of whome had the power to bring fire down from the sky -- is this seriously what you think the Israelites believed ?

Who is the Supreme one in this story > Obviously "EL -- is the Council of El .. but if we suppose it is YHWH -- and has to be one or the other .. then who are all these Sons of YHWH .. that YHWH ends up destroying ?

"God stands in[b] the assembly of El;[c] in the midst of the gods[d] he renders judgment"

Every Israelite - and every nation around Israel -- Knows what the Assembly of El is. Even if you don't . YHWH is not standing in the midst of some human magistrates .. he is standing in the midst of the Gods .. as the "Divine Council of EL" is not made up of Mortals .. not located on Earth .. according to these folks.

So even if you don't understand what the Divine Council was ... The Israelites did not suffer the same affliction .. and there were no Humans among the "Bne e-aliem" according to the Israelites. that wrote the song

The interesting thing about this is that the Bible tells of God's relationship with mankind, detailing his relationship with certain people after Adam -- particularly Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. God knew there were other gods people worshipped or gave reverence to. It is outlined in the scriptures for us.

 

[YoursTrue]

Jesus never claimed that he came down from Heaven. The words, ‘came down fro Heaven’ were added by the trinitarian translators to try to fool readers into believing in their trinity ideology.

The part of the verse saying, ‘even the son of man which is in Heaven’ may also have been added but it still speaks of Jesus being ‘A Man’, which goes with John the Baptist saying that:

• “I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’” (John 1:33)

Jesus only ever says that he was sent by the Father. And that sending was after Jesus had been anointed with the spirit of God, by God, at the river Jordan, and then passed the trial in wilderness, which proved he could resist the greatest temptations.

Being endowed with the spirit of God if was necessary that Jesus be TESTED by GOD and TEMPTED by Satan as to whether Jesus would misuse the power he had been endowed with.

Jesus, passed the test and temptation and, instead of using the power of God for his own benefit, Jesus lowered himself to become a servant to his fellow man, healing all who came to him in need, and submitting himself to the jury of mankind, stayed silent as a lamb in the face of his slaughterers, and allowed himself to be crucified for the salvation of mankind, removing the sin of the first man, Adam.

Hello, Soapy. (1) What makes you think that trinitarian translators added the words that Jesus came down from heaven? (2) what translation do you like to use?

 

[Soapy]

John 6:32 "Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven." John 6:33 "For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world." John 6:34 "Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread."

John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."

REPROVED.

PERSONAL OPINION? ..... View attachment 77176

TRY THIS..... Hebrews 2:9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man." ... (Smile), Oh dear.

Only sent? lets check the record. John 9:39 "And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind." John 16:28 "I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father."

now that you want to ask questions ... good now answer my challenge. Post #333.

101G.

Which part of anything you said speaks of Jesus saying he came down from Heaven?

You posted verses which use the word ‘heaven’ without the realisation that ‘heaven’ means ‘The Sky and Celestiall spaces’.

Manna came down from the sky… It saved the Israelites from starvation in the wilderness. The true bread is THE TRUTH. The truth SAVES!!

Jesus was taught the TRUTH and propagated to everyone who had an ear to hear!!

And you have yet to learn that when Jesus talks of ‘The World’ and being or not being in it, he is referring to FACING ‘Sin, unrighteousness, and Adversity’. It means that Satan has no hold over him.

After Jesus was tempted and passed, he was now FACING SINFULNESS, ADVERSITY, and UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. Before that moment in the synagogue where Jesus announced ‘the year of the Lord’ he had not faced anything that tested him. This is born out by the astonishment and anger of the Jews who heard him read the verse from the Torah and claimed that ‘This day that saying is fulfilled in your hearing [in him]’. That is the moment Jesus ‘Entered the world’!! After that moment Jesus was continually fighting sin, unrighteousness and adversity.

Then, when his mission had been accomplished, when he had delivered the testimony that God sent him to deliver, he said: ‘And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world’ - meaning that Satan no longer had a hold on him - he had conquered and was ready for the final episode - his death!

 

[Soapy]

John 6:32 "Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven." John 6:33 "For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world." John 6:34 "Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread."

John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."

REPROVED.

PERSONAL OPINION? ..... View attachment 77176

TRY THIS..... Hebrews 2:9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man." ... (Smile), Oh dear.

Only sent? lets check the record. John 9:39 "And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind." John 16:28 "I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father."

now that you want to ask questions ... good now answer my challenge. Post #333.

101G.

What question? You mean the one asking if God’s arm died and was raised up again?

If by ‘God’s arm’ you mean Jesus Christ then that is perfectly correct. Jesus was crucified and was dead for three days. God raised him up again on the third day and gave him an immortal body.

 

[Soapy]

Hello, Soapy. (1) What makes you think that trinitarian translators added the words that Jesus came down from heaven? (2) what translation do you like to use?

I think (thought) I explained that in my response.

Jesus was born as a baby as a result of the overshadowing of the spirit of God on the Virgin Mary. Jesus is the ‘Second’ (or ‘Last Adam’) meaning the second and last human being to be created as sinless, holy, and righteous.

‘No one has ever gone into Heaven who did not first DESCEND [into the grave…. Died].’

The trinitarian translators took every opportunity to add verses or words that made it seem like trinity was true. Where they could not, the declared the meaning of verses to be upholding trinity claims. We know of many of such fallacious words and verses but since the original written text is largely lost and in any case even if it the true verse we’re shown the trinitarian churches would ignore the true verse.

I mean, why would it be necessary to alter scriptures, to add false verses or words, to present false interpretations of scriptures in order to uphold a belief IF THAT BELIEF WERE TRUE??

‘God’ came in the flesh…!?
‘God’ was seen by angels…. Really?
‘God’ was justified in the flesh???
‘God’ was taken up to Heaven???

Trinitarians claim these as valid, confirmation that God was a man?

‘Jesus came down from Heaven’?? Which scripture verse claims Jesus was in Heaven?

What was Jesus doing in Heaven?
Where does scripture say this?

Trinity claims that Jesus created the world which is an enormous, glorious, majestic, all powerful event… Yet the Father is greater than Jesus… and because of this fact trinity then claims THE FATHER created all things THROUGH Jesus.
So who created all things: the Person or the tool?
But we know that all that is nonsense since it all contradicts itself.

We also hear that baptism must be carried out in the name of ‘The Father, the Son, and the holy spirit’.. but baptism in scriptures is ONLY EVER carried out IN THE NAME OF JESUS!!!

So, did the apostles ignore Jesus’ command… or… was there no such command from Jesus about F,S&HS? Trinity has no answer because when the fallacy was entered into trinitarian Christianity very few people could read and in any case any objections to what was taught was swiftly dealt with by way of banishment from the church, punishment, torture, or death…. In other words, trinity was upheld by FEAR of the church!!

So, when did Jesus COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN?
There is no such presentation. We celebrate Jesus BEING BORN and call it ‘Christmas’. But, of course, Jesus did not become ‘CHRIST’ until he was ANOINTED with the Spirit of God (the Holiest of holy oils) 30 years later!! In fact, ‘Christ’ means ‘Anointed one’!!

You ask about which translation I use. Please understand that truth does not come through any specific translation. Truth is found in the wisdom OF understanding. The trinitarian version of this is to isolate an ideology and ignore any other verses or themes that state against it:

• separate; isolate; complicate

Remember that trinity claims that Jesus is God, and that God is an inseparable unity of three persons… How did Jesus separate himself from God-the-three?

Jesus says:

• “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.” (John 6:38)

But how could God-Jesus have a different WILL from God-the-other-two? Or did Jesus have two Wills… Witness the night before he died:

• “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” (Luke 22:42)

If Jesus is God and man with two wills, how did the Will of his flesh person nearly override the Will of the spirit God?

 

[101G]

So… what exactly is “the challenge”? To believe that?

to KNOW it, or if you have an alterative answer to rather he, God died or not on the CROSS. if so, how? or if not then all of this religion is nothing, especially the preaching of the CROSS.

now my challenge is this, I believe that God the Ordinal Last, the Christ, the Shiloh died on the CROSS .... A NATURAL DEATH of his OWN BODY, according to the "LIFE" of this World.

do one agree or not, your answer please.

101G.

 

[101G]

Which part of anything you said speaks of Jesus saying he came down from Heaven?

U still don]t get it .... do U? listen in Layman's terms. John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."

understand NOW?

101G.

 

[Soapy]

U still don]t get it .... do U? listen in Layman's terms. John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."

understand NOW?

101G.

You aren’t saying anything!!

He who is sinless is above he who is in sin.

Sin is like a heavy millstone weighting down on the soul of whom it is in.

Jesus had no sin therefore he is above all others of humanity since all others of humanity are weighed down below by sin… drowning in the murky waters of unrighteousness.

What are you saying! It’s better if you say it outright rather than hiding it in some misrepresentative verse.

 

[101G]

You aren’t saying anything!!

personal opinion again, lol.

He who is sinless is above he who is in sin.

Yes, and is the sinless one from this WORLD? LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL, can you READ

Sin is like a heavy millstone weighting down on the soul of whom it is in.

this has nothing to do with sin, but LOCATION. listen, "I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."
now soapy let's hear it..... where is the sinless one from? ..... YOUR ANSWER PLEASE.

101G.

 

[Zwing]

…all of this religion is nothing…

This is how it appears to me, as I await appropriate evidence.

 

[Soapy]

personal opinion again, lol.


Yes, and is the sinless one from this WORLD? LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL, can you READ

this has nothing to do with sin, but LOCATION. listen, "I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."
now soapy let's hear it..... where is the sinless one from? ..... YOUR ANSWER PLEASE.

101G.

Sinful ones are from below : below integrity; below truthfulness; below righteousness; below the standards God set for his ‘image in flesh’.

What else have you got to say or ask?

 

[101G]

This is how it appears to me, as I await appropriate evidence.

well the Lord Jesus rose up his body and is now living in his NEW GLORIFIED BODY, which means the gospels are correct, and the religion that attest to that is correct.

101G.

 

[101G]

Sinful ones are from below : below integrity; below truthfulness; below righteousness; below the standards God set for his ‘image in flesh’.

What else have you got to say or ask?

you been answered EVERYTHING I need to know from and about U..... (smile)... Good day. (smile), lol, lol, lol,

YIKES!

101G.

 

[Soapy]

you been answered EVERYTHING I need to know from and about U..... (smile)... Good day. (smile), lol, lol, lol, View attachment 77209 YIKES!

101G.

Thanks. Good to know it.

 

[Zwing]

well the Lord Jesus rose up his body and is now living in his NEW GLORIFIED BODY…

I can’t see him.

 

[101G]

I can’t see him.

of course not. do you not understand why? this is why he returned in Spirit on the day of Pentecost. if he showed up alive, with blood in a body, then there would be no NEW COVENANT or testament or will nor any salvation. . WHY? listen and Learn, Hebrews 9:16 "For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator." Hebrews 9:17 "For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth."

understand in this world/Life he died in order to usher in the NEW TESTAMENT/COVENANT. if he show himself ALIVE, with blood, there would be no salvation, and no NEW COVENANT, this is why we Drank his blood and eat his flesh to show his DEATH. for, as Hebrews 9:17 clearly states, "For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth."

so he live, but not by blood, but by his own Spirit. he is with us in Spirit.

Z, this is basic bible Study, you should have known this. now let's us teach you Doctrine.

understand, there is a two fold RETURN of the Lord Jesus. which one of them has already happen, or taken place.... in Spirit on the day of Pentecost. which fulfilled, Matthew 16:28, Mark 9:1, and Luke 9:27. the KINGDOM of God has already come. now we await for his coming in flesh and bone without blood, which is his now Glorified body that .... "EVERY" eye will see him. supportive scripture. Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

this is the second coming that everyone knows about. but what many fail to understand his FIRST RETURN in Spirit.

have you not been taught of his two-fold return? remember he is to "APPEAR" a second time, for the First time was in Natural Flesh, next time in his Glorified Body. supportive scripture. Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." SECOND TIME? yes, question, when did he appear the FIRST TIME? when he came in NATURAL FLESH with BLOOD in the Likeness of a man, via the virgin birth.

understand, he did not appear on the day of Pentecost, no, but he MANIFESTED himself in the Spiritual Gifts. not appeared but MANIFESTED. this is just 2 easy not to understand.

we suggest you re-read this post for clarity, and edification

101G.

PS. thanks for the question.

 

[101G]

The interesting thing about this is that the Bible tells of God's relationship with mankind, detailing his relationship with certain people after Adam -- particularly Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. God knew there were other gods people worshipped or gave reverence to. It is outlined in the scriptures for us.

but what one miss there was many worshiping God before the Nation came on the scene. example, Moses father-in-Law, Jethro, a priest of Midian. or ouyr brother Job who was keeping the feast day before Israel was even a Nation

101G.

 

[Zwing]

For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

This seems like a false premise on its face. Why, then?

 

[101G]

This seems like a false premise on its face. Why, then?

did you not READ? is your will or last testament in force now while you're living in this world? no, not until you're ... DEAD. listen once more, Hebrews 9:16 "For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator." Hebrews 9:17 "For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth."

understand now?

101G.

 

[Zwing]

did you not READ? is your will or last testament in force now while you're living in this world? no, not until you're ... DEAD. listen once more, Hebrews 9:16 "For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator." Hebrews 9:17 "For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth."

understand now?

101G.

Hahaha…not all testaments are “last testaments”.