‘Jesus was WITH GOD’ therefore Jesus WAS GOD?

[101G]

Hahaha…not all testaments are “last testaments”.

GINOLJC, to all

THIS ONE IS. it's a binding Covenant....... other words an everlasting one. so there is no need for another... (smile). this is just 2 easy not to understand.

101G.

 

[Sargonski]

The interesting thing about this is that the Bible tells of God's relationship with mankind, detailing his relationship with certain people after Adam -- particularly Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. God knew there were other gods people worshipped or gave reverence to. It is outlined in the scriptures for us.

Yes --- nail on head - If one read the OT book - Abe and MelchiZedek are offering Sacrifices to the "Most High" -- and the God the are worshiping is not named YHWH .. as told to us by YHWH some 500 years later when he talks to Moses.

MelchiZedek is the "Priest-King" of Jerusalem at the time .. a Canaanite walled city -- City Patron god is Zedek. The God they are worshiping is not Zedek however but "The Most High" God of the Canaanite Pantheon EL. Mentioned as such in other places in the Bible .. Psalm 82 -- "Council of EL - Assembly of EL" named as such because EL is the Head of the Divine Assembly . Chief God .. the Most High.

So no YHWH worship going on until Moses .. and even those such as ABe only worshiped on God .. they still believed in the Pantheon .. just chose to worship only on.

After Moses .. YHWH is revealed .. The People might have worshiped YHWH only for a short time - but after 2 years - Moses leaves for a few weeks up to the mountain .. People start worshiping EL -- "golden calf" -- and could have been concurrent with Asherah .. sometimes accompanied by the son = which was "The Baals" to other nations .. but was YHWH to the Israelites. EL has 70 Sons who end up fighting for El's position on Earth .. In Deut 32:8 (need to get a proper reading) EL "The Most HIgh" El Elyon -- alots the nations of the earth to his Sons .. YHWH's portion ends up Israel. .. these sons then end up fighting for El's position .. as detail every time they attack some city.

After this time .. the Israelits are raging Pagans for their entire history.. basically until Josiah's reforms -- which are only a few years prior to the End .. when Marduk defeats YHWH and destroys the Place where his Name Resides. aka -- Blots out his Name.

When YHWH Was worshiped .. it was along side many other Gods .. there were various Places of Worship for YHWH .. the typical Temple you would find at least 2 Standing Stones .. one for YHWH the other for Asherah .. his consort. -- the sons always take on the consort of the father in this motif. El is still around though .. relegated to "Most High' in the heavens .. YHWH now Chief God on Eearth - or rather .. one of those vying for that position.

At YHWH's temple you would find both male and female prostitutes .. what ever your preference .. and a "High - Place" out back -- in case you were needing a big favor -- requiring a hefty sacrifice .. of the first fruits as was required of Jephthah

 

[Zwing]

So no YHWH worship going on until Moses…

This is hard to say with any certainty. My own feeling is that Moses is a mythological figure, but assuming for the sake of this conversation that he was real and lived in the 14th century BCE, this deity might have vastly predated him. Or, it might as well be the case that YHVH was invented by “the Yahwist”, whom one source (Harold Bloom) has surmised to have been a woman in the court of Solomon in the 10th century BCE. The history of the tetragrammatic God is very difficult to determine.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes --- nail on head - If one read the OT book - Abe and MelchiZedek are offering Sacrifices to the "Most High" -- and the God the are worshiping is not named YHWH .. as told to us by YHWH some 500 years later when he talks to Moses.

MelchiZedek is the "Priest-King" of Jerusalem at the time .. a Canaanite walled city -- City Patron god is Zedek. The God they are worshiping is not Zedek however but "The Most High" God of the Canaanite Pantheon EL. Mentioned as such in other places in the Bible .. Psalm 82 -- "Council of EL - Assembly of EL" named as such because EL is the Head of the Divine Assembly . Chief God .. the Most High.

So no YHWH worship going on until Moses .. and even those such as ABe only worshiped on God .. they still believed in the Pantheon .. just chose to worship only on.

After Moses .. YHWH is revealed .. The People might have worshiped YHWH only for a short time - but after 2 years - Moses leaves for a few weeks up to the mountain .. People start worshiping EL -- "golden calf" -- and could have been concurrent with Asherah .. sometimes accompanied by the son = which was "The Baals" to other nations .. but was YHWH to the Israelites. EL has 70 Sons who end up fighting for El's position on Earth .. In Deut 32:8 (need to get a proper reading) EL "The Most HIgh" El Elyon -- alots the nations of the earth to his Sons .. YHWH's portion ends up Israel. .. these sons then end up fighting for El's position .. as detail every time they attack some city.

After this time .. the Israelits are raging Pagans for their entire history.. basically until Josiah's reforms -- which are only a few years prior to the End .. when Marduk defeats YHWH and destroys the Place where his Name Resides. aka -- Blots out his Name.

When YHWH Was worshiped .. it was along side many other Gods .. there were various Places of Worship for YHWH .. the typical Temple you would find at least 2 Standing Stones .. one for YHWH the other for Asherah .. his consort. -- the sons always take on the consort of the father in this motif. El is still around though .. relegated to "Most High' in the heavens .. YHWH now Chief God on Eearth - or rather .. one of those vying for that position.

At YHWH's temple you would find both male and female prostitutes .. what ever your preference .. and a "High - Place" out back -- in case you were needing a big favor -- requiring a hefty sacrifice .. of the first fruits as was required of Jephthah

Jesus spoke to the Israelites about true worship and what's up in life. The history of the kings is not a real good sense of loyalty to the God that rescued them for the most part. Some were loyal, most were not. Anyway, the temple was taken down by force (Roman armies) in the first century after Jesus was killed. The road, Jesus said, is narrow. "whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it." Matthew 7:14

 

[Sargonski]

This is hard to say with any certainty. My own feeling is that Moses is a mythological figure, but assuming for the sake of this conversation that he was real and lived in the 14th century BCE, this deity might have vastly predated him. Or, it might as well be the case that YHVH was invented by “the Yahwist”, whom one source (Harold Bloom) has surmised to have been a woman in the court of Solomon in the 10th century BCE. The history of the tetragrammatic God is very difficult to determine.

That is True .. but I am going by the Bible Account .. YHWH stating no one knew him prior to Moses.

Leaving the fairy tale aside .. it seems that Yahu of the Shasu is a likely contender for the Origin of the War God of the Nomadic Tribes in that region .. some of which were enslaved on a regular basis .. later those who went on to form the Israelites.

didn't understand what you mean by "woman in the court" .. Asherah was YHWH's consort if that is what you mean.

 

[Sargonski]

Jesus spoke to the Israelites about true worship and what's up in life. The history of the kings is not a real good sense of loyalty to the God that rescued them for the most part. Some were loyal, most were not. Anyway, the temple was taken down by force (Roman armies) in the first century after Jesus was killed. The road, Jesus said, is narrow. "whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it." Matthew 7:14

"Jesus spoke to the Israelites" == pure unsubstantiated fantasy on your part. on what are you basing this claim ?

 

[Sargonski]

@Sargonski, ready to take "The 101G challenge?" ... (smile)

101G

Always a challenge with you G .. deflection king you are mate _

 

[Sargonski]

First, no second ERROR of the Day

third and fourth ERROR of the day.

fifth ERROR of the day

sixth ERROR of the Day.



101G.

What a clueless response mate .. running around crying "Error error" without stating what the error is.. kind of like when they mess up the computer on Star Trek .. and it just repeats "Does not compute .. does not compute"

Can't help you mate .. Just telling you modern Scholarship .. El is the God of Abraham .. didn't mean to trigger this "thought stopping" response. Should get that checked out though .. someone got through defenses ... put something into subconscious .. causing this reaction .. need to do an extraction.. remove the poison lizard.

 

[YoursTrue]

"Jesus spoke to the Israelites" == pure unsubstantiated fantasy on your part. on what are you basing this claim ?

So you don't believe that Jesus spoke to Jewish disciples as recorded in the Bible?

 

[Sargonski]

So you don't believe that Jesus spoke to Jewish disciples as recorded in the Bible?

Jewish diciples are not Israelites mate .. talking about Ancient Israelites .. prior to Assyria Ending Israel -

 

[YoursTrue]

Jewish diciples are not Israelites mate .. talking about Ancient Israelites .. prior to Assyria Ending Israel -

Not sure what you're talking about. But Jesus did say the road is narrow leading to life.

 

[Zwing]

didn't understand what you mean by "woman in the court"

Literary historian and critic Harold Bloom (once called “the greatest literary critic of the twentieth century”) provided a commentary and interpretation for David Rosenberg’s 1987 translation of the Yahwist text, wherein Bloom opined that the text was written in the tenth century BCE during the reign of Solomon, and further that the writer was a well-born woman who was not unfamiliar with the inner workings of Solomon’s “court”. It was a controversial suggestion that initiated much debate after publication of the book, entitle simply “The Book of J”:

The Book of J book by Harold Bloom

www.thriftbooks.com

Thanks for mentioning said “Yahu of the Shasu”. I am unfamiliar, and will research that a bit.

 

[YoursTrue]

Literary historian and critic Harold Bloom (once called “the greatest literary critic of the twentieth century”) provided a commentary and interpretation for David Rosenberg’s 1987 translation of the Yahwist text, wherein Bloom opined that the text was written in the tenth century BCE during the reign of Solomon, and further that the writer was a well-born woman who was not unfamiliar with the inner workings of Solomon’s “court”. It was a controversial suggestion that initiated much debate after publication of the book, entitle simply “The Book of J”:

The Book of J book by Harold Bloom

www.thriftbooks.com

Thanks for mentioning “Yahu of Shasu”. I am unfamiliar, and will research that a bit.

Yeah but did H. Bloom say where he got the idea that it was written by a well born woman?

 

[Sargonski]

Not sure what you're talking about. But Jesus did say the road is narrow leading to life.

We are talking About a Canaanite Priest King MelchiZedek and Abraham - Worshiping and making sacrifices to the Most High God of the Canaanite Pantheon .. EL

Jesus wont walk the Earth for another 1800 years. .. although .. he is of the Priesthood of this Canaanite Priest King .. which is kind of cool that Jesus is joined to that Order. .. makes sense being a son of God and all ..

 

[Zwing]

Jewish diciples are not Israelites mate .. talking about Ancient Israelites .. prior to Assyria Ending Israel -

Well, I can’t agree with you there, for the simple fact that the tribe of Judah was one on the Israelite tribes…one of the tribes descended from Ya’akov, as the story goes. So long as there are Jews, they will be “Israelites” by definition.

 

[Sargonski]

Literary historian and critic Harold Bloom (once called “the greatest literary critic of the twentieth century”) provided a commentary and interpretation for David Rosenberg’s 1987 translation of the Yahwist text, wherein Bloom opined that the text was written in the tenth century BCE during the reign of Solomon, and further that the writer was a well-born woman who was not unfamiliar with the inner workings of Solomon’s “court”. It was a controversial suggestion that initiated much debate after publication of the book, entitle simply “The Book of J”:

The Book of J book by Harold Bloom

www.thriftbooks.com

Thanks for mentioning said “Yahu of the Shasu”. I am unfamiliar, and will research that a bit.

Right place .. Right time -- God of the Mountain .. starts out as a Vulcan God .. for these metal workers ..

While Bloom may have been interesting for his time .. and perhaps ahead in ways. as of about 15 years ago .. the lid come off the popcorn Pot. and we now know so much more about the religions of the other peoples around Israel due to the Ugaritic Texts found at Rash Shamra .. massive library .. now deciphered. A whole lot happened in Biblical Archaeology since 1987 .. .. diffrent world.

Current thinking is that Solomon or David and others wrote them .. -- no reason they would not have .. and no reason some would not have been written by women prophetesses .. as they were very common.

but -- OK .. let us wander through solomons's temple of YHWH .. one temple among many in Israel .. temples to YHWH .. Temples to many other Gods. Walking up the step sthere are Asherah poles -- inside two standing stones - one for YHWH and one for Consort Asherah .. out back is a "High Place" for sacrifices .. up to including Child Sacrifice if the need was great .. country at war .. need YHWHs attention or you can engage with your choice of Male or Female Prostitutes. ..

The Israelites were raging Polytheistic Pagans for near their entire History.

 

[Sargonski]

Well, I can’t agree with you there, for the simple fact that the tribe of Judah was one on the Israelite tribes…one of the tribes descended from Ya’akov, as the story goes. So long as there are Jews, they will be “Israelites” by definition.

and even those of Judah are not Jews .. Jews -- technically .. do not exist until after the Babylonian Exile.. but regardless .. suggesting that Jesus was speaking to the Ancient Israelites is ridiculous.

 

[Zwing]

Yeah but did H. Bloom say where he got the idea that it was written by a well born woman?

Here’s a short review by my favorite book reviewer:

BlackOxford's review of The Book of J

2/5: Literary Chutzpah Biblical scholars have been arguing for two and a half centuries about who wrote the Pentateuch, the first five books of the Bible. Several things are agreed upon: it wasn’t Moses. It wasn’t a single individual. And it wasn’t written over a single lifetime. Beyond that...

www.goodreads.com

I would recommend reading the book. I’m not saying that Bloom was right (Black Oxford seems to think not), but it is interesting as all hell, and can but change how you think about scripture.

 

[Zwing]

Jews -- technically .. do not exist until after the Babylonian Exile..

How on earth do you conceive of that? A “Jew” is a “Yehudi”, this is a nisbah-type adjective describing one of the tribe of the progenitor Yehudah. Appearance only after the Babylonian exile? Why, the sojourn in Babylon is where and when the core of the Talmud…the Talmud Bavli…was composed, by Jews (of course) at their “Talmudic academies” in Pumbedita, Sura, and a few other places in Mesopotamia. Indeed, Babylon is where Rabbinic Judaism was born! I cannot fathom how you arrived at this.

 

[YoursTrue]

Here’s a short review by my favorite book reviewer:

BlackOxford's review of The Book of J

2/5: Literary Chutzpah Biblical scholars have been arguing for two and a half centuries about who wrote the Pentateuch, the first five books of the Bible. Several things are agreed upon: it wasn’t Moses. It wasn’t a single individual. And it wasn’t written over a single lifetime. Beyond that...

www.goodreads.com

I would recommend reading the book. I’m not saying that Bloom was right (Black Oxford seems to think not), but it is interesting as all hell, and can but change how you think about scripture.

Here's what I think. All scripture is inspired by the one true God. He reaches the heart and mind to understand it according to his will. It is between ourselves and God.