-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
10 Most Common Misconceptions about Islam
- Thread starter Starsoul
- Start date
kai
ragamuffin
well i guess you could say Christians are not historically peaceful but the difference is this.
Is there a dispensation for violence in Christianity? even in self defense?
Comet
Harvey Wallbanger
I will say this again,
When one deals in subjective matters, personal opinions, or an induvidual perspective; they create "personal truths". To take personal truths as fact and apply them to all, is what would be considered by Dualists as "wrong"....
Wombat
Active Member
:yes:
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Thank you for the thorough report.
As I read through the text, there were subtle differences in the wording.
But overall, it would seem that Islam is not a religion of peace.
Instruction such as ...strike above the neck and every fingertip...
would be.... 'severe'....literally.
Sadly..........
I know plenty of Christian folks who espouse 'eye for an eye' over 'turn the other cheek', and would much rather retaliate on the micro and macro scale than finding a more peaceable means.
I'm not saying this is 'all' or 'official' but norms and mores, as we know through out many religions often takes precedence... including Christianity and Islam.
On both sides of the religions discussed here, I think what is 'offensive and defensive' is in the eye of the beholder.
So while there aren't specific verses ascribing violence in the New Testament, I think the 'official' action is pretty open ended and the 'fishers of men' can pretty much do whatever it takes to 'do right' by God, and things like 'cutting down vines that don't bear fruit' could easily be put to use in justification.
.....Also who needs an official dispensation anyway when there is youtube
[youtube]UTm72CB2VCs[/youtube]
YouTube - ‪The Crusade against Iraqi Muslims‬‏
[youtube]jPQXloH8tuU[/youtube]
YouTube - ‪onward christian soldiers‬‏
I realized 'marching AS to war' is just a metaphor.....
But then again.... jihad has more than one meaning that doesn't get brought up often enough.
[youtube]wFQUOxcYmLY[/youtube]
YouTube - ‪Battle Hymn of the Republic (Christian Soldiers Tribute)‬‏
On a historical note: While these are 'old news' I feel they are reoccurring themes that happen on different levels, from how history is told and pitched, to the street corners and chapels where 'Real' Christians tell others the 'Truth'.
Would you care to outline what you perceive to be the official dispensation in Islam in regard to war/violence and defense?
I'm not going to pretend like I'm naive to the controversy surrounding verses in the Quran, but I'd like to hear your favourites or where ever you feel they are set in stone.
Not trying to fight buddy
Thanks for talking with me.SageTree
waitasec
Veteran Member
seems like this is a justification to retaliate when one gets their feelings hurt, like the depiction of mohammed in a cartoon...
this eye for an eye thang...is just gonna make all those that adhere to this silly childish nonsense... blind
Well an eye for an eye in this case would be drawing cartoons similarly.
There is a difference between hurting someone's feelings and:
"Remember how the Unbelievers plotted against thee, to keep thee in bonds, or slay thee, or get thee out (of thy home). They plot and plan, and Allah too plans; but the best of planners is Allah" Qur'an
"And why should you not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)? Men, women, and children, whose cry is: 'Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from Yourside one who will protect; and raise for us from Yourside one who will help!'" Qur'an
McBell
Admiral Obvious
Well an eye for an eye in this case would be drawing cartoons similarly.
There is a difference between hurting someone's feelings and:
"Remember how the Unbelievers plotted against thee, to keep thee in bonds, or slay thee, or get thee out (of thy home). They plot and plan, and Allah too plans; but the best of planners is Allah" Qur'an
"And why should you not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)? Men, women, and children, whose cry is: 'Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from Yourside one who will protect; and raise for us from Yourside one who will help!'" Qur'an
A man and a women are walking home from a theater late one night when a masked man comes out of the shadows with a knife and threatens them.
While pulling out a gun the mans finger slips and he accidently shoots the masked man in the leg.
Realizing he had the upper hand the man then take a few steps toward the masked man and fires one more shot, killing the masked man.
Self defense?
Nope
The man murdered the masked man.
It stopped being self defense when the masked man was on the ground with a bullet in his leg and the man and woman could flee.
waitasec
Veteran Member
Well an eye for an eye in this case would be drawing cartoons similarly.
There is a difference between hurting someone's feelings and:
"Remember how the Unbelievers plotted against thee, to keep thee in bonds, or slay thee, or get thee out (of thy home). They plot and plan, and Allah too plans; but the best of planners is Allah" Qur'an
"And why should you not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)? Men, women, and children, whose cry is: 'Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from Yourside one who will protect; and raise for us from Yourside one who will help!'" Qur'an
i still think martin luther king jr had a very effective way of dealing with oppression...
earlwooters
Active Member
I still would like to know why Islam hates dogs and cats. Is this a misconception or is it something Islam wants people not to know if they can help it. Dogs and cats were domesticated long before any religion was ever dreamed up by humans.
I can see where the misconception about dogs would come from, but from what did you get the impression that cats are disliked?
In anycase, "Islam" doesn't hate neither.
kai
ragamuffin
Sadly..........
I know plenty of Christian folks who espouse 'eye for an eye' over 'turn the other cheek', and would much rather retaliate on the micro and macro scale than finding a more peaceable means.
I'm not saying this is 'all' or 'official' but norms and mores, as we know through out many religions often takes precedence... including Christianity and Islam.
On both sides of the religions discussed here, I think what is 'offensive and defensive' is in the eye of the beholder.
So while there aren't specific verses ascribing violence in the New Testament, I think the 'official' action is pretty open ended and the 'fishers of men' can pretty much do whatever it takes to 'do right' by God, and things like 'cutting down vines that don't bear fruit' could easily be put to use in justification.
.....Also who needs an official dispensation anyway when there is youtube
[youtube]UTm72CB2VCs[/youtube]
YouTube - ‪The Crusade against Iraqi Muslims‬‏
[youtube]jPQXloH8tuU[/youtube]
YouTube - ‪onward christian soldiers‬‏
I realized 'marching AS to war' is just a metaphor.....
But then again.... jihad has more than one meaning that doesn't get brought up often enough.
[youtube]wFQUOxcYmLY[/youtube]
YouTube - ‪Battle Hymn of the Republic (Christian Soldiers Tribute)‬‏
On a historical note: While these are 'old news' I feel they are reoccurring themes that happen on different levels, from how history is told and pitched, to the street corners and chapels where 'Real' Christians tell others the 'Truth'.
Would you care to outline what you perceive to be the official dispensation in Islam in regard to war/violence and defense?
I'm not going to pretend like I'm naive to the controversy surrounding verses in the Quran, but I'd like to hear your favourites or where ever you feel they are set in stone.
Not trying to fight buddy
SageTree
Heres the thing we can post examples of what people have done or not done in the name of religion or using religion as a reason or excuse. people often do here.
Now Islam has gotten itself a reputation rightly or wrongly as a violent religion now i think we can agree people can use what ever argument they want to justify acts of violence its all in the interpretation.
i think a religion of peace doesn't really suit human beings, They either ignore the "turn the other cheek parts" and quote the Old testament when it suits their need for violence or interpret the "self defense parts" to suit them selves.
In my opinion Christianity and Islam are failures, they have failed to influence humanity enough , Oh i know people will say "but look at this and look at that" religion became a tool of the power mongers, and all the evidence left on the ground from Empires and Golden ages is from people using their religion to suit their aspirations.
Post evidence of Christian or Muslim barbarity and you will get a response of "thats not Christian/Islam". I get that i really do , its what leads me to conclude that Christianity and Islam haven't influenced people half as much as people think they have.
Theres to many people paying lip service to being this or being that, when in reality there just people who probably just want to fit in.
I have to ask how would a "religion of peace" aka Islam , get a reputation of being violent unless violence has been an issue. and from the very first it most certainly has.
Last edited:
zenzero
Its only a Label
Friend kai,
Personal understanding:
The brain has two parts which functions independently one part reasons the other part is intuition. The east went deep using mostly the intuition to realize and understand existence itself and this path takes one inside the self and the other path is external which reasons and scientific research has been where it leads one to.
Similarly east and west has developed and now it is realized that both parts of the brain are equally important to maintain balance and so now we find the west trying to take the inner journey and the east taking the outer and so we have real globalization.
In the absence of proper understanding of the inner in the west Abrahamic paths fullfilled the gap to a certain level of understanding to evolve before one could dive deep where eastern meditators have been since ages.
In existence there can be no gap and it is always filled up by something and that way balance is always maintained.
Evolution/change is permanent and anyone that holds on to the old cannot evolve further but existence slowly does that by other means which can be *war* as viewed which becomes the medium for change but not a goal in itself likewise and those who are the mediums gets affected as slowly it becomes a part of the culture if it continues for long which is why Islam in certain population is viewed likewise.
However again reiterate that CHANGE is permanent and anyone holding on to old ideas cannot evolve further and similarly Abrahamic paths may find itself short of depth in as much as finding the answers to TRUTH is concerned.
Love & rgds
Personal understanding:
The brain has two parts which functions independently one part reasons the other part is intuition. The east went deep using mostly the intuition to realize and understand existence itself and this path takes one inside the self and the other path is external which reasons and scientific research has been where it leads one to.
Similarly east and west has developed and now it is realized that both parts of the brain are equally important to maintain balance and so now we find the west trying to take the inner journey and the east taking the outer and so we have real globalization.
In the absence of proper understanding of the inner in the west Abrahamic paths fullfilled the gap to a certain level of understanding to evolve before one could dive deep where eastern meditators have been since ages.
In existence there can be no gap and it is always filled up by something and that way balance is always maintained.
Evolution/change is permanent and anyone that holds on to the old cannot evolve further but existence slowly does that by other means which can be *war* as viewed which becomes the medium for change but not a goal in itself likewise and those who are the mediums gets affected as slowly it becomes a part of the culture if it continues for long which is why Islam in certain population is viewed likewise.
However again reiterate that CHANGE is permanent and anyone holding on to old ideas cannot evolve further and similarly Abrahamic paths may find itself short of depth in as much as finding the answers to TRUTH is concerned.
Love & rgds
How can someone be "influenced by Islam" (?) if he doesn't follow it? Who is the active element here? It's us. We are the ones who follow or not. That's why it's called free will. Does being called "Muslim"/accepting Islam mean you will be programmed to be/do this and that?!!
Is religion supposed to be a magic wand that will suddenly turn you into another being? You deal with human beings not computers
Muslim means you are in a continuous struggle to follow this guiding map called Qur'an and Sunnah. The map does lead you to the desired goal of purification and happiness, if you follow it. When people deviate from the drawn map, is it the fault of the map or those who deviate?
The Qur'an says through its Ayats that most people don't know, don't believe, are ungrateful, etc.
The Qur'an is a book of guidance for those who want to be guided. The Qur'an never suggested that we will turn into angels. Islam emphasizes human weakness and thus it provides the healing medication which is forgiveness.
So, the conclusion is people fail and will fail to follow Islam/the map with different degrees. And in Islam, people are not asked at all to follow it 100%, no, people will deviate sometimes, and we thank our God that He is Forgiving. The important thing is when you deviate, you return to the original track again and again, i.e. that the overall sum of your life is on the path of God's pleasure; that the good deeds outweigh the bad ones. There are always bad deeds/failure to follow as long as you talk about human beings.
The burden of "failure" is on the person lack of will/desire or simply weakness, not on the divine book. If God wanted 100% obedience, to program people into a certain state, this would mean there is no free will. This is not the will of the Creator for us to be like.
"And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed – all of them entirely. Then, [O Muúammad], would you compel the people in order that they become believers?" Yunus:99
Last edited:
tarekabdo12
Active Member
[FONT="]The first rule about Islam dealing with other faiths is that everybody has the right to choose his religion and to worship what he wants even if Islam doesn't confirm his opinion. I don't know if anybody says something against this but if he does so he's wrongful. You have total liberty to choose your religious beliefs according to the Islamic dogma. Even the Jihad idea is concerned with allowing the Muslims to call for their religion and to tell others about it because Muslims believe their responsibility is that the whole world should know about their message. However, Islam doesn't forbid others to believe in a contradicting faith. And if you think that Muslims will enter wars against the western community to make people believe in their religion so u r wrong. We won't enter a war like this because now there's freedom of talking about religion and adopting any religious belief so there is no need for Jihad now. And What Bin Laden had done is considered totally against Islamic beliefs and he's considered a terrorists by most Muslims. And if you think Muslims believe their religion is the true religion so all persons do so. However , we agree with most morals and beliefs christian and Jews adopt. We differ in few things, however we have many things and beliefs in common.[/FONT]
RitalinO.D.
Well-Known Member
You should probably let Saudi Arabia know that, where there isn't a single church in the entire country, or Iran where Xtians are actively persecuted.
I suppose they aren't true Muslims?
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
I think what it means to be a Muslim or a Christian or an atheist or a dude or whatever has always been and will allways be contested.
Everything is always changing. I think each of us comes to these things and makes them our own. Some people come to Islam or atheism for internal reasons, some for political. It then becomes like comparing apples with rocks.
For what it's worth I don't think they are true muslims.
No more than the Westboro Baptists are true Christians.
For us there is only subjectivity. So there can never be a 'true' anything.
kai
ragamuffin
Absolutely:yes: