126,000 babies died today.

[McBell]

Not true.

The woman's body isn't going to know that there is a fertilized egg in the uterus Until it attaches to the lining and gives off the pregnancy hormone. Without attachment, there is no pregnancy hormone, therefore is no pregnancy, regardless of the egg being fertilized or not.

A miscarriage is when the fertilized egg is attached to the uterus yet is not vaible for life and therefore is terminated naturally.

Stedmans Medical Dictionary for the Health Professions and Nursing, Illustrated Fifth Edition, ISBN 0-7817-4426-1

pregnancy
The state of a female after conception and until the termination of the gestation
​

 

[jonny]

I think you'll find that a lot of people will acknowledge that the fetus is alive. I don't deny that. I don't even deny that it is human because it is human tissue. Simply being alive and being human doesn't make tissue a person. After all, cancer is living human tissue.

I think our society is in a sad state when we start comparing unborn humans to "cancer" and "parasites." It reminds me of what Mitt Romney said about Roe vs. Wade and how it has devalued human life to the point that we don't blink an eye about wasting it. People will burn down schools to save rats and monkeys from being subjected to experiments, but fight with all the strength they have to have the right to kill human life. Talk about hypocrisy and misplaced priorities...

 

[Mathematician]

Mitt Romney also wants to prolong our involvement in Iraq and subsequently have more of our soldiers die. I'm sure we can each find a principle in ourselves that devalues life in one way or another. :sarcastic

If you're wanting people to identify abortion as a problem, you'll find most of us will gladly write our names down. However, there's a world of difference between anti-abortion and pro-choice, just like there's a world of difference between a fetus and a person. Criminalizing abortion does nothing but cause more problems. It's feel-good legislation.

Our society isn't in any tail-spin from past generations.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

The menstrual cycle is the unfertilised egg. Unless on the pill - but they say that is a "fake" menstrual cycle! We do actually agree!

No, as Gentoo said, the menstrual cycle is the lining of the uterus and the unattached egg, regardless of fertilization. An egg can be fertilized and still miss the window for attachment, in which case it's still not a miscarriage, it's a menstrual cycle.
Who is 'they' and how did 'they' come to be so ill informed?:sarcastic It's not a "fake" menstrual cycle, it's a 'regulated' menstrual cycle. The differemce being that 'fake' isn't real, whereas 'regulated' means you know when it's coming.

 

[nutshell]

Mitt Romney also wants to prolong our involvement in Iraq and subsequently have more of our soldiers die. I'm sure we can each find a principle in ourselves that devalues life in one way or another. :sarcastic

Irrelevant to the thread, young padawan.

 

[McBell]

I think our society is in a sad state when we start comparing unborn humans to "cancer" and "parasites." It reminds me of what Mitt Romney said about Roe vs. Wade and how it has devalued human life to the point that we don't blink an eye about wasting it. People will burn down schools to save rats and monkeys from being subjected to experiments, but fight with all the strength they have to have the right to kill human life. Talk about hypocrisy and misplaced priorities...

No more so than those who fight with everything they have to make sure that a child is brought into this world and then want absolutely nothing to do with it after it's birth.
Like George Carlin said about the "Right To Lifers":

Prebirth: we are behind you 100%
Preschool: FU** You! Your on your own!
​

 

[Ðanisty]

I think our society is in a sad state when we start comparing unborn humans to "cancer" and "parasites." It reminds me of what Mitt Romney said about Roe vs. Wade and how it has devalued human life to the point that we don't blink an eye about wasting it. People will burn down schools to save rats and monkeys from being subjected to experiments, but fight with all the strength they have to have the right to kill human life. Talk about hypocrisy and misplaced priorities...

I'll have you know that my lack of value for human life has nothing to do with Roe v. Wade. I didn't value fetuses at any point in my life, even before I knew what abortion was. I also wouldn't burn down a school to save rats and monkeys. Go ahead, let them experiment on animals. I'm not a hypocrite. You don't get to call me one just because I disagree with you.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

No, as Gentoo said, the menstrual cycle is the lining of the uterus and the unattached egg, regardless of fertilization. An egg can be fertilized and still miss the window for attachment, in which case it's still not a miscarriage, it's a menstrual cycle.
Who is 'they' and how did 'they' come to be so ill informed?:sarcastic It's not a "fake" menstrual cycle, it's a 'regulated' menstrual cycle. The differemce being that 'fake' isn't real, whereas 'regulated' means you know when it's coming.

They being doctors. Technically if the egg is fertilised its a miscarriage, but as it is so early on - women dont notice they are pregnant and think it is just a menstrual cycle. I dont mind what people call it - but technically its a miscarriage.

 

[The Seeker]

No more so than those who fight with everything they have to make sure that a child is brought into this world and then want absolutely nothing to do with it after it's birth.
Like George Carlin said about the "Right To Lifers":

Prebirth: we are behind you 100%
Preschool: FU** You! Your on your own!
​

Exactly. The same people that would chastise a woman for getting an abortion would later criticize that same woman for going on welfare because she couldn't afford to take care of her child.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

Exactly. The same people that would chastise a woman for getting an abortion would later criticize that same woman for going on welfare because she couldn't afford to take care of her child.

Thats actually a very good point!

 

[Mathematician]

Irrelevant to the thread, young padawan.

Not at all. Romney's name was mentioned; I just ran with the idea that nothing devalues life more then war. :flirt:

 

[Quoth The Raven]

They being doctors.

If your doctor is telling you that a contraceptive pill is giving you a 'fake' menstrual cycle, then I suggest you ditch them for someone who actually knows what the stuff they're prescribing you does.:areyoucra

 

[jonny]

Mitt Romney also wants to prolong our involvement in Iraq and subsequently have more of our soldiers die. I'm sure we can each find a principle in ourselves that devalues life in one way or another. :sarcastic

Wrong. He wants to win the war. So do the democrats. Quit trying to devert the point I was trying to make.

If you're wanting people to identify abortion as a problem, you'll find most of us will gladly write our names down. However, there's a world of difference between anti-abortion and pro-choice, just like there's a world of difference between a fetus and a person. Criminalizing abortion does nothing but cause more problems. It's feel-good legislation.

Our society isn't in any tail-spin from past generations.

I don't want to criminalize abortions in most cases. I wish it were illegal, but I'm not stupid enough to think that my wishes should be law.

 

[jonny]

No more so than those who fight with everything they have to make sure that a child is brought into this world and then want absolutely nothing to do with it after it's birth.

Like George Carlin said about the "Right To Lifers":

Prebirth: we are behind you 100%​

Preschool: FU** You! Your on your own!​

Society has already got a built in system for taking care of children after they are born. It isn't preschool. It's called the family. The father goes to work and works his *** off to support the family. The mother stays home, works just as hard, and takes care of the children. If a family's situation is less than perfect, accomodations are made that are in the best interest of the children.

The problem isn't that society doesn't care about children. The problem is that parents are selfish with their time and have been brainwashed into believing that taking care of children is a waste of their time. The world revolves around the dollar and getting ahead of the Joneses. We are constantly comparing what we have to what others have and want MORE, MORE and MORE!

The answer to this problem isn't to abort the babies. The answer is for society to again respect the sacred role that mothers and fathers play in the life of a child, for people to quit fighting with each other and start trying to understand and love each other, and for society to put children at its center instead of money and greed. I more than willing for the government to pick up the slack where there are indeficiencies, but I think that Americans need to change their attitudes on this subject big time.

 

[jonny]

I'll have you know that my lack of value for human life has nothing to do with Roe v. Wade. I didn't value fetuses at any point in my life, even before I knew what abortion was.

What do you attribute your lack of value for human life to? Help me understand why I shouldn't care about an unborn human.

 

[jonny]

Exactly. The same people that would chastise a woman for getting an abortion would later criticize that same woman for going on welfare because she couldn't afford to take care of her child.

I wouldn't critisize a woman for going on welfare to take care of her child. She should take advantage of every opportunity that she has to make sure that her child has what it needs.

I would critisize a woman for having sex out of wedlock with a man who she isn't willing to marry. I would critisize a man for not going out, working hard, and supporting his child - even if he refuses to marry the mother. I would critisize a man for having unprotected sex with a woman when he wasn't willing to live with the consequences. I would critisize grandparents for not doing their part to ease the burdens placed on the family. I would critisize the churches for not having resources to "clothe the naked" and "feed the hungry." I would critisize the media and society for dictating what children "need." There's a lot of things and people that I can critisize about these types of situations, but I would never critisize a woman for being on welfare to take care of her child.

 

[Mathematician]

Wrong. He wants to win the war. So do the democrats. Quit trying to devert the point I was trying to make.

Your point was off. Life is no less important in this century than it has been in the past 2,000 years. If anything, a greater emphasis has been put on the individual. Societies are more skeptical about past norms of war, capital punishment, and lynching. Even the dreaded pro-choice movement actively campaigns to reduce abortions through realistic means instead of feel good legislation. All this "it used to be" stuff is a lie told to the public to make it seem like there's some traditional utopia we should return to.

 

[jonny]

Not at all. Romney's name was mentioned; I just ran with the idea that nothing devalues life more then war. :flirt:

Why don't we let people donate their unwanted babies to the government then? The government can raise them and then send them off to war. If we did that we'd have an army of 40 million out there fighting and it wouldn't matter if they died because they were unwanted babies anyway. :sarcastic

Planned parenthood estimates that approximately 1.3 million abortions are performed in the United States each year. If these numbers are right, we abort about 3,500 babies EVERY DAY in the United States. Compare that to the number of soldiers who have died in Iraq and tell me that war devalues human life more than abortion. At least the soldiers had a choice as to whether or not they joined the military.

The idea that that war devalues life more than abortion is moronic and it compares apples to oranges. Every life is valuable. We should be seeking ways to end the war and looking for ways to end abortions.

 

[Quiddity]

You mean 126,000 embryos and fetus.

Your tactic of framing this "debate" before it has even started has not gone unnoticed. Do you have anything other than appeals to emotion?

I think he phrased it just right. Would it matter to pro-choicers if it was indeed a life? I used to think it did...I was wrong. Yes, it would to some, but if a thread I started a month or so ago is reflective of the majority, choice supercedes it. So yeah, if you want to call it emotional appeal in such a context, I'll take it.

 

[jonny]

Your point was off. Life is no less important in this century than it has been in the past 2,000 years. If anything, a greater emphasis has been put on the individual. Societies are more skeptical about past norms of war, capital punishment, and lynching. Even the dreaded pro-choice movement actively campaigns to reduce abortions through realistic means instead of feel good legislation. All this "it used to be" stuff is a lie told to the public to make it seem like there's some traditional utopia we should return to.

The pro-choice movement isn't trying to reduce abortions. That is a PR campaign they've cooked up because they are trying to appeal to religious people. The goal of the pro-choice movement is easy, open and unrestricted access to abortions for anyone at anytime in anyway.