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2024 Presidential Candidates

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Maybe @Twilight Hue has seen what progressives think about Biden?
But then, who said I was progressive? I think of myself as a liberal in the classic sense. That is, someone who holds a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise -- with a modest tendency towards providing some necessary social services by government. At present, the thought of being conservative, in the way that the Republican Party is showing itself to be, is denying a lot of individual rights and civil liberties, and trying to turn democracy into a "vote-conservative-ocracy." Ugh!
 

PureX

Veteran Member
If I though for a fraction of a millisecond that there was a hint of a trace of a shadow of a chance, I would support West, or Williamson. If only to show the U.S. what a real progressive was.

As it is Biden is the best chance to stop the fascists.
What does having a chance have to do with anything? Nothing will ever change if nothing ever changes. Vote for change if you ever want change to happen.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
What does having a chance have to do with anything? Nothing will ever change if nothing ever changes. Vote for change if you ever want change to happen.
And if this results is President Trump coming back?

Actions have consequences.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member

Heyo

Veteran Member
But then, who said I was progressive? I think of myself as a liberal in the classic sense. That is, someone who holds a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise -- with a modest tendency towards providing some necessary social services by government. At present, the thought of being conservative, in the way that the Republican Party is showing itself to be, is denying a lot of individual rights and civil liberties, and trying to turn democracy into a "vote-conservative-ocracy." Ugh!
If you want conservative, vote democrat. (In the US) they are the ones holding to the status quo. The GOP is far from conservative, they are regressive. Liberal, in the classical sense, is the far left wing of the democrats. That's how far the Overton window has shifted.
 

JIMMY12345

Active Member
From accross the pond,Ron de Santis and his mystery coach tours and Disney fantasia is the best Reps have got,not great any way you look at it,imo the republicans need to clean their house before anything else.
Like it dislike it Polls are calling highly possible Trump will win (all the others are squabbling among themselves).I which case Ukraine will lose the war as arms will be cut.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Biden doesn't deserve kudos for ending the war. He had no real choice and only mitigated the disaster that Trump stuck him with. Just look at the timeline. Biden deserves kudos for managing the rushed withdrawal that Trump dumped in his lap. Had Trump remained in office, the situation probably would have been a lot worse, since Trump did nothing to prepare for it.

Source:

Timeline of U.S. Withdrawal from Afghanistan




So Biden enters office on January 21 with an May 1 deadline to get all remaining troops out, and he looks for the planning documents. Nothing. Congress was aware of the lack of planning and set up their own committee to make recommendations, which was all Biden had. They said that there would be a disaster unless Biden negotiated a revised withdrawal schedule. Biden managed to get a revision that gave us until August--still hard to achieve, but doable. Leading up to August, the process was understandably rushed and chaotic, and Biden got blamed for a lot of that. Nevertheless, he did a very good job of withdrawing safely and with the cooperation of the Taliban. So we avoided the embarrassing spectacle that was the end of the Vietnam War, when the US literally got booted out by the advancing North Vietnamese Army, despite a negotiated withdrawal that was in place.

Since taking office, Biden has done a very competent job of running the government and repairing much of the damage left by the Trump administration. I wish that the Democrats had someone younger to replace him with, but that's pretty hard for any political party to do when their leader is the incumbent. Biden is going the same route that many elderly American officeholders take--holding on to his power as long as he can rather than gracefully moving aside to let younger leadership emerge. We saw the result of this attitude with Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Senator Feinstein. Biden seems vigorous and reasonably alert for his age now, but people in their 80s can deteriorate quickly. Indeed, Donald Trump, only 3 years younger, is also showing signs of his age. We have become a gerontocracy.
I think Biden gets too much blame for this, but the whole war was an error from the start, as Russia showed us in the 80's. What gets overlooked is who the president picks for the cabinet and administration jobs. We forget but Trump lost a lot of people as he went along, and he picked many controversial people. He barely had a functioning administration when he walked out (with boxes of documents). It was so bad that Biden had to rebuild a lot of staff that usually carry on between administrations to help maintain the functioning of government. As we recall Trump didn't authorize a transition team until weeks before Biden was to be sworn in. It was chaos. We were fortunate that Biden had loads of government experience.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I'm just going to watch it burn now.
I don't think you have a choice. The trick for those who ever loved America is to achieve acceptance that it is likely indefinitely morphing into something unlovable and be at peace with that.
Please translate this concept [progressivism] into European politics
Western liberalism is represented in the ideas of people like Montesquieu, Locke, and Madison, and summed up nicely by @Evangelicalhumanist: "I think of myself as a liberal in the classic sense. That is, someone who holds a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise -- with a modest tendency towards providing some necessary social services by government." This was the philosophy of small government borne of centuries of abuse from kings and priests: "Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." - Diderot.

Later comes another movement eventually called progressivism, which sees government as a force for good by actively shaping society consistent with the humanist vision of enabling the most people to have the most opportunity to pursue happiness as they understand it (utilitarian values), and so we have public sanitation, public schools, public roads, public health care, Social Security, protections from monopolies, support for the working and middle classes (unions, minimum wage), agricultural inspections, pharmaceutical regulations, environmental protection laws, workplace safety and child labor laws, banking laws, construction laws, etc. and the taxes to support those activities - the things Republicans with the help of their supporters actively work to dismantle and cynically call Communism of socialism.

Liberals come in both flavors. AOC and Bernie are examples of progressives in the States. Classical liberalism is consistent with mid-20th century Republican politics. Eisenhower would agree with evangelical humanist. Those were the days when America's left and right shared common American values such as a love of democracy, support for the middle class and the average American, church-state separation, egalitarianism, and the rule of law. Yes, America frequently missed those marks, but at a minimum, all gave lip service to them. We all shared that agenda, but with different ideas about how to achieve it. The two sides viewed one another as the loyal opposition, and both held classical liberal values.

But that's not the line separating the American right and left any more. There is no loyal opposition on the right. The right is openly hostile to those principles now, but still use the language of liberalism, as with "the Freedom caucus" or now Trump, who would end elections if he could as president, with what he calls "election interference."

What does having a chance have to do with anything? Nothing will ever change if nothing ever changes. Vote for change if you ever want change to happen.
Vote for candidates with no chance of winning if you want to help those candidates who do and who you dislike beat your second choice.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Like it dislike it Polls are calling highly possible Trump will win (all the others are squabbling among themselves).I which case Ukraine will lose the war as arms will be cut.
Well, polls show Trump winning the republican nomination (which suggests the low self-esteem of conservatives) but not winning the general election. The big concern is that the presidency isn't won by popular vote like all other elections, but the Electoral College system, which is not representative of the nation. Trump lost the popular vote both times, but won the EC in 2016 by about 70,000 votes in four swing states, and then lost the EC in 2020 by about 40,000 votes in four states. That is way too close. He lost the popular vote in 2016 by about 3 million and then lost it by over 7 million in 2020, so he isn't popular. That absurdity is why so many conceratives are attracted to this toxic personality. Trump reminds me of a story where a friend is dating a girl who has a drug problem, is a theif, is cheating on him, but he won't break it off. All his friends say "Dude, you can do so much better.", but he lacks the self-respect to understand he deserves better.
 

Sand Dancer

Currently catless
Well, polls show Trump winning the republican nomination (which suggests the low self-esteem of conservatives) but not winning the general election. The big concern is that the presidency isn't won by popular vote like all other elections, but the Electoral College system, which is not representative of the nation. Trump lost the popular vote both times, but won the EC in 2016 by about 70,000 votes in four swing states, and then lost the EC in 2020 by about 40,000 votes in four states. That is way too close. He lost the popular vote in 2016 by about 3 million and then lost it by over 7 million in 2020, so he isn't popular. That absurdity is why so many conceratives are attracted to this toxic personality. Trump reminds me of a story where a friend is dating a girl who has a drug problem, is a theif, is cheating on him, but he won't break it off. All his friends say "Dude, you can do so much better.", but he lacks the self-respect to understand he deserves better.
The thing is the other GOP candidates are worse than Trump. He's looking more centrist because the others are extremists.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
The thing is the other GOP candidates are worse than Trump. He's looking more centrist because the others are extremists.
I think if Trump were to become president again (I say "become president" because I don't see a scenario where he could win a fair election, but could win with help by republicans in some states) that it would be the end of democracy, much like what putin did in Russia to make himself permanent president. Look what his power has led him to decide, invading Ukraine, and threatening other nations.

The other republicans are as bad, or worse, policy wise, but I don't see them having the personality or motive to destroy democracy like Trump does.
 
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