240 days left until the world comes to an end

[Just_me_Mike]

I agree with you there, Mike. Camping didn't pull his numbers out of thin air - in fact, he's in a long tradition of Christians who have dated the beginning of the world from around 6000BCE to 3000BCE. To me, the disparate numbers are irrelevant: the same errors in biblical interpretation are common, the numbers are just calculated differently.

And I know from my reading that such a practice has been thoroughly refuted and almost no modern commentator will do this.

Just to make an adjustment, he dates the world at 11,013 BC, significantly different than anyone else.

Another side note. The reason the importance of the Hebrew Kings dating needs to be brought to light, is the dates of the Kings has been great fuel in saying things can't be trusted in the bible. So when perfect harmony was obtained with the kings, it made great strides to show it is trustworthy. Anyway just and FYI...

 

[tumbleweed41]

Oh I see, well you did that wrong friend.

Go back to your link, and on the gregorian part do may 21 2011, it is the EXACT date as mentioned in Genesis to enter the ark. It's OK those conversions can be confusing...

Gregorian: May 21, 2011
Julian: May 8, 2011 (post ¹)
Jewish: Iyyar 17, 5771
י״ז באייר ה׳תשע״א
SDN: 2455703.5 ²
Weekday: Saturday

Ok, show me where in Genesis the EXACT date of lyyar 17, 5771 occurs.
That is, the EXACT date.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Ok, show me where in Genesis the EXACT date of lyyar 17, 5771 occurs.
That is, the EXACT date.

Lyyar 17 only. 5771 is todays date.

I simply said that Noah was told to go into the ark on the 17th day of the second month which was Lyyar. That's all man. I said the bible does mention May 21, and in regard to an event like the end of the world. That's all. I did not say it mentioned the year 2011 as plainly. OK?

Genesis 7:

[11] In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Just to make an adjustment, he dates the world at 11,013 BC, significantly different than anyone else.

Another side note. The reason the importance of the Hebrew Kings dating needs to be brought to light, is the dates of the Kings has been great fuel in saying things can't be trusted in the bible. So when perfect harmony was obtained with the kings, it made great strides to show it is trustworthy. Anyway just and FYI...

Like I said, the actual date is irrelevant to me.

And he does stand in the same tradition as the others, unless he uses some kind of novel method (ie, not adding up all the years between persons and events in the Bible).

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Like I said, the actual date is irrelevant to me.

And he does stand in the same tradition as the others, unless he uses some kind of novel method (ie, not adding up all the years between persons and events in the Bible).

Well AE, why do you say he is the same as others if you are not familiar with how he actually did it? Just asking. Clearly 11,013 is a BIG difference than 4-6000bc don't you think?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Well AE, why do you say he is the same as others if you are not familiar with how he actually did it? Just asking. Clearly 11,013 is a BIG difference than 4-6000bc don't you think?

That's why I said "unless."

The difference between the dates is irrelevant if they use the same basic method. A very minor change in the theory of what the years mean would produce widely different numbers, but the tradition is one and the same: *somehow* adding up all the years between the length of people's lives and events in the Bible.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Well AE, why do you say he is the same as others if you are not familiar with how he actually did it? Just asking. Clearly 11,013 is a BIG difference than 4-6000bc don't you think?

When you shrink the scale to suit your belief system, sure.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Lyyar 17 only. 5771 is todays date.

I simply said that Noah was told to go into the ark on the 17th day of the second month which was Lyyar. That's all man. I said the bible does mention May 21, and in regard to an event like the end of the world. That's all. I did not say it mentioned the year 2011 as plainly. OK?

Genesis 7:

Not OK.

You said the Bible mentions May 21st.
Lyyar 17 only matches to May 21 in 2011.
Next year it is May 9th
In 2013 it is April 27th.

Without hard evidence of the exact year of the supposed flood, there is no mention of May 21st.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Just to make an adjustment, he dates the world at 11,013 BC, significantly different than anyone else.

Another side note. The reason the importance of the Hebrew Kings dating needs to be brought to light, is the dates of the Kings has been great fuel in saying things can't be trusted in the bible. So when perfect harmony was obtained with the kings, it made great strides to show it is trustworthy. Anyway just and FYI...

You're giving Theile too much credit.

He argued that the king lists were consistent, but that does not mean that anything else in the bible is "trustworthy" in the same way. It doesn't even mean that the Hebrew kings even existed in an historical sense. It only proves that the writer of this tiny portion of the bible referenced kings that have some historical parallels.

Theile did not prove that any other chronology or chronological method is correct other than his own, and the writers of the portions of the bible that contain the king list are not the same writers as the rest of the Bible --- and therefore they have different levels of historical reliability.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Not OK.

You said the Bible mentions May 21st.
Lyyar 17 only matches to May 21 in 2011.
Next year it is May 9th
In 2013 it is April 27th.

Without hard evidence of the exact year of the supposed flood, there is no mention of May 21st.

I believe that Mike thinks that he has that.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

You're giving Theile too much credit.

He argued that the king lists were consistent, but that does not mean that anything else in the bible is "trustworthy" in the same way. It doesn't even mean that the Hebrew kings even existed in an historical sense. It only proves that the writer of this tiny portion of the bible referenced kings that have some historical parallels.

Theile did not prove that any other chronology or chronological method is correct other than his own, and the writers of the portions of the bible that contain the king list are not the same writers as the rest of the Bible --- and therefore they have different levels of historical reliability.

I never said it proved the entire bible, I simply mean if the kings could be harmonized it would be a great stride in showing it's accuracy, because the kings happen to be a particular area people chop the bible up with. I was just explaining why the kings would be one small part in showing the bible is trustworthy.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I never said it proved the entire bible, I simply mean if the kings could be harmonized it would be a great stride in showing it's accuracy, because the kings happen to be a particular area people chop the bible up with. I was just explaining why the kings would be one small part in showing the bible is trustworthy.

I must have misunderstood this:

So when perfect harmony was obtained with the kings, it made great strides to show it is trustworthy.

I guess you were talking about the king list and not the bible.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I must have misunderstood this:



I guess you were talking about the king list and not the bible.

Well, both would be correct. Surely the kings could be known to be trustworthy if the timeline stands to scrutiny, which is appears to be doing, but it also makes strides in showing the bible is too.
Camping did the same thing for Judges, and the Chronology from Adam all the way to Solomon in exquisite detail for anyone to check out.

My personal opinion is that during archeological digs over the past century or so, evidence has surfaced that speak contrary to the bible, in addition to that there are various approaches to dating the kings, all which have cast a shadow of doubt that scholars and theologians simply have fallen prey too. After all it is far easier to say, the bible is simply "one" record of various men, and place it on the shelf with everything else.
In contrast, it is much more difficult to stand by the bible and see with painstaking study if it continues to hold up to beings God's word after other ancient findings are present, etc...

While I have admitted Camping has been wrong in the past, it is quite clear he has no problem pointing out where and why he was wrong. He has a vast amount of work other than end of world writings that are amazing to read.

For the record, I find many people amazing, Bertrand Russel, Richard Dawkins, CS Lewis, William Durant, on and on... All of these men have faults, flaws, and personalty issues at times, but to ignore the vast majority of what they have correct is such a waste...

Anyway, until later...

 

[Penumbra]

As far as squandering all I have, I never had much to begin with. My wife and two kids and a humble house we rent now. God never once said in the bible and in fact it would be sacrilege to say God wants you to help your self. He never said God helps those that help themselves. That is a secular idea, and if any Christian teaches it, than they might use a handful of verses to twist into meaning that. It is literally impossible for to help yourself until God interjects in our lives. Just like the story of Saul changing into Paul, Paul could have never done the transformation on his own. Or the thief on the cross with Jesus, he reviled Jesus right up to the last second, and something changed, the guy did nothing, do no scholar research, didn't help old ladies across the road and see the error of his way, he changed and ask Jesus to remember him when he died.
Help like that can only come from God.
Hope that wasn't too long, but there you go...

This theology sounds a lot like learned helplessness, which is generally not an admirable trait to have or to seek, and rather is one to typically step away from.

People can choose to define and express themselves as being helpless if they wish to, but I don't see the value in it.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

This theology sounds a lot like learned helplessness, which is generally not an admirable trait to have or to seek, and rather is one to typically step away from.

People can choose to define and express themselves as being helpless if they wish to, but I don't see the value in it.

Helpless only in regard to understanding God's mind, and helpless in regard to "getting" ones self saved.
Certainly not with choosing ones sock color or job, etc...

 

[waitasec]

Helpless only in regard to understanding God's mind,

that is a dangerous position to be in, there is no difference between that line of thinking and a religious fundamentalist who thinks flying into buildings is what they understand to be gods will...

and helpless in regard to "getting" ones self saved.

from what, yourself?

Certainly not with choosing ones sock color or job, etc...

you did say...

It is literally impossible for to help yourself until God interjects in our lives

help yourself in what way then...if it is to know the will of god, i told you why that is a dangerous stance...

 

[The Wizard]

Nothing is going to happen, but there will be more earthquakes in which many will happily use to support the end is near stuff and say, "aha! An earthquake. See I told you so. I'm right" Didn't the bible state that, "no one would know the hour or time?" I am no scholar by all means, but I think I can recall that repeated ad infinitum. And I think I can also recall that the rapture scenerio was not even in the original texts and is fairly new. It sounds like fear mongering or something. But, hey.. if someone would like to make a large wager or bet on it I don't have a problem, lol. I bet 10, 000 frubals nothing will happen. People have been dominated, suppressed, controlled and conquered by holding onto savior versions (ie alien versions included) I don't trust it for one minute... One has to look at what a rapture or savior belief could be designed for at some point.

In code that would mean don't do anything about us invading and destroying your home, culture or nation .. just keep waiting and looking up ... we'll be there shortly to dispose of you for our new world and order.. IMO.

 

[England my lionheart]

Mike its going to be ok,there is a sign by the lake opposite my house that says "No Fishing until the 21st May"

 

[Twilight Hue]

Yes, yes... This may well happen. Though that matters little if he is wrong, life will go on for you as usual and he will do whatever. On the otherhand, when that day comes and the earthquake strikes, the fear that will strike you will far exceed the fun and games that might surround Camping's embarrassment of being wrong.
I feel sorry for anyone underestimating what is about to take place. It truly is going to be a horrible day. There is still time to pray for understanding.

Sorry, Just Me Mike. From a realists point of view here, this "prediction" will certainly not occur at all. It's something which can be banked on.

The 21st will pass, and the 22nd will arrive and play out like any other day.

Hopefully you will recover, realise your concerns and apprehensions for what they are, and become well. :O)

 

[Skwim]

Raise your hand if you think we'll ever see Just_me_Mike here on RF after the 21st.