40 Examples of Christian Privilege

[Pah]

No luck. I think that's a pretty offensive list. I'm surprised it was posted by a mod.

Why is it offensive?

 

[Scott1]

Honestly Scott, I do not feel that anyone here has asked you to defend any of the traits you happen to be born with.

No problem... me and the other men of priviledge will head back to the country club.

Look, I am not trying to make you feel guilty for any of the privileges you happen to have.

... and I never would feel guilty. I have been all over the world. I KNOW how well I have it. The problem is, a post like this implies that this privilege is something that I obtained on the backs on those less fortunate....or that me, as a "white Christian male" is doing nothing to change this...

But I am persisting at this thread, at the risk of damaging our relationship, because I strongly feel it's important to talk about these things. If we never talk about them, they will not go away. They will simply fester in the background leading to more misunderstandings in the future.

Hehe... you aint ever gonna get rid of me lady. I feel it is important to talk about these things as well... that is the point you seem to be missing.... I just think there are healthier ways to do it... garbage like this:

I can talk openly about my religious practices without concern for how it will be received by others.

....do NOTHING but put people off.

Do you honestly think this is anything more than inflammatory especially here at RF?
Mr. Emu, FromtheHeart etc etc are some of the most caring people I've met... oh well, I guess we just look at things differently, my friend. I tend to put "faces" on statements.

Always your friend,
Scott

 

[Snowbear]

To all - sorry for the outbursts.
It is becoming obvious that as a newer member, my opinion really doesn't matter (see lilith's response to me above). I'm sure that's especially when my words are influenced by the frustration I've been experiencing here lately.
To the mods - I'll try to quit complaining about posts I find offensive.

Thanks to Scott for continuing to attempt to show others, in a much more civilized manner than I can muster, why the original post and this thread is, in fact, offensive to Christians.

Some folks are saying it wasn't an attack on Christianity, but the title of the thread pretty much declares who it's attack on, as far as I can see.

As I've said before, it's not been my experience or observation that my faith has gained me privilege in society. If anything, it's been the opposite.

 

[Aqualung]

No imagination necessary. Until a year and a half ago, I was a non-Christian in this country. Funny thing was, I NEVER had to defend my beliefs. My beliefs were not mocked or ridiculed, though a few Christians told me I was going to hell (That's one of the reasons I don't do that... I know that's not for me to determine ).

Yeah, I agree. People for some reason always think, for some reason, that I'm an athiest. Well, not just for "some reason" - they see me as being the smart, intelectual type who would explain God away. I never catch flak for being an atheist. Once I make my religious views known (usually answering people's questions) I start getting more ridicule than before.

Number 12 says "I am likely not judged by the improper actions of others in my religious group." As a mormon, that's certainly not the case. In fact, just this afternoon I saw a show that made a huge point of making sure everybody knew that it was crazy mormons who were doing crazy things. Not crazy people who happened to be of a particular faith. Crazy mormons.

 

[Pah]

... Some folks are saying it wasn't an attack on Christianity, but the title of the thread pretty much declares who it's attack on, as far as I can see.
...

I am curious what the attack is - except for the holding of privilege.

 

[jonny]

Spinks, I'm not offended by Christmas, and I doubt that pah is either. Nor am I talking about others being offended. Actually, I get quite annoyed when people voice offense at things like Christmas and have said so to them.

I was trying to point out some examples of privilege. That's all. As for the point of the thread, I won't pretend to read pah's mind but I know that when I talk about privilege it's with the intent to raise awareness. That said, you're list of privileges does not fully reflect the non-Christian experience. My point was not that non-Christians are offended that Christians say "Merry Christmas" to them. My point was to contrast that with not having their own high holy days recognized. To have no one say "Happy Rosh Hashanah" or "Happy Samhain" or "Happy Diwali." Again, I am not talking about offense here. Most non-Christians are used to being ignored. Trust me, they are happily surprised when someone who is not from their faith shows knowledge or interest. I am asking on their behalf that those of us immersed in Christian culture (and I include myself here, and you too Spinks) be aware of this difference and make an effort to learn something about other religious traditions, out of compassion.

Yom Kippur (the Jewish Day of Atonement) starts the evening of Oct 12th.
The Muslim holy month of Ramadan is going on right now.
Samhain is known to us as Halloween but was originally and still is the new year in some pagan (Celtic) traditions.
Diwali, the Hindu festival of lights starts Nov 1st

Wouldn't you think that it is the job of those who are celebrating these holidays to educate the uneducated? If its my birthday and I don't tell anyone, I can't sit around compaining when no one throws me a party. Christians are not familiar with these holidays because they didn't grow up with them. Perhaps this is society's fault, but you can't really fault the people for the circumstances that they were born into. The holidays that we celebrate were cemented into our society long before any of us were born.

A few weeks ago I got an email from a customer wishing me a Happy New Year (I hope I got that right - I don't remember exactly what it was called). I had no idea that there was a Jewish holiday. I've only ever had one Jewish friend in my entire life. I didn't run around screaming that since I'm not Jewish they have no right to send me a holiday greeting. I replied back and wished them the same. I wouldn't expect anyone here to know what the 24th of July is.

 

[Bennettresearch]

So are you transfering your annoyance at affirmative action over to religion now? Last I hear there were no quotas for hiring Buddhists or Pagans.

(btw, as far as I know, you have not responded to my response to you in the "black holocaust" thread.)

Hi Lil,

Well Lil, maybe you misunderstand my annoyance. My annoyance is not with affirmative action, but with the fact that after almost 40 years people keep revisiting the past and bring it up like nothing has ever happened. I was only making a statement to the fact that this "christian priviledge" doesn't seem to be benefitting me right now. I am expected to go along with every agenda that is thrown out there because of some kind of guilt or responsibility for it. Whew, try that one on for size. If there are people being held back due to this "priviledge" then I am not seeing it where I live.

I'll get my miner's hat on and go back into the archives to read your post. Threads get buried so quickly in here that it is hard to track all of them.

 

[lilithu]

Namaste Jonny.

Wouldn't you think that it is the job of those who are celebrating these holidays to educate the uneducated? If its my birthday and I don't tell anyone, I can't sit around compaining when no one throws me a party. Christians are not familiar with these holidays because they didn't grow up with them. Perhaps this is society's fault, but you can't really fault the people for the circumstances that they were born into. The holidays that we celebrate were cemented into our society long before any of us were born.

I'm not saying that it's any body's fault regarding the circumstances they were born into. Of course it isn't. And it is not a bad thing that everyone knows when Christmas and Easter are. But regarding whose job it is to do the educationg, I think it's both. Obviously, you can't be expected to know the holidays of other faiths. But you could make a point to ask. We could all make a point to take an interest in each other.

A few weeks ago I got an email from a customer wishing me a Happy New Year (I hope I got that right - I don't remember exactly what it was called). I had no idea that there was a Jewish holiday. I've only ever had one Jewish friend in my entire life. I didn't run around screaming that since I'm not Jewish they have no right to send me a holiday greeting. I replied back and wished them the same.

Once again, no one is saying that Christians don't have the right to wish people a Merry Christmas. My point was that for non-Christians, when their own holidays come around, no one says anything.

It is great that your customer took the initiative to wish you a Happy Rosh Hashanah. And it is great that you replied with the same good wishes. Honestly. However, come next year, are you going to remember Rosh Hashanah? And the year after that? It's true that one can't expect people to know when your birthday is when you don't tell them. But if you tell them and they don't remember next year or the next, yet at the same time they always remember someone else's birthday, you might start to feel a little unappreciated. That's the difference between being Christian in this country and being something else. Again, I am not blaming the Christians for this difference; I'm just trying to illustrate that the difference exists and what it's like for non-Christians.

I wouldn't expect anyone here to know what the 24th of July is.

Actually I do. July 24th is when the LDS celebrate their entering into and settling in the Salt Lake valley in Utah. They had been traveling west due to persecution from mainstream Christians in the east and people were tired and wanted to stop. But their leader kept pushing them westward. Finally, when Brigham Young saw the Salt Lake, he said "This is the place." There is a monument to commemorate the event in Temple square. I also know about the miracle of the sea gulls, which is pretty cool. (I visited Temple Square the last time I drove thru Utah.)

You're right, come July 24th I will probably not remember its significance. But since you point out it's importance to you, I will try to.

 

[Snowbear]

I am curious what the attack is - except for the holding of privilege.

Well, if you didn't get it from me previous posts and from my answers to your PM's, I give up.
I've been told by more than one person that my communication "skills" suck. I've tried to explain my position and have once again failed.... one of the many reasons for my screen name.

 

[jonny]

It is great that your customer took the initiative to wish you a Happy Rosh Hashanah. And it is great that you replied with the same good wishes. Honestly. However, come next year, are you going to remember Rosh Hashanah? And the year after that? It's true that one can't expect people to know when your birthday is when you don't tell them. But if you tell them and they don't remember next year or the next, yet at the same time they always remember someone else's birthday, you might start to feel a little unappreciated. That's the difference between being Christian in this country and being something else. Again, I am not blaming the Christians for this difference; I'm just trying to illustrate that the difference exists and what it's like for non-Christians.

Good point. I'll work on that - I couldn't even remember the name a few weeks later which should tell you how much work I have to do.

Actually I do. July 24th is when the LDS celebrate their entering into and settling in the Salt Lake valley in Utah. They had been traveling west due to persecution from mainstream Christians in the east and people were tired and wanted to stop. But their leader kept pushing them westward. Finally, when Brigham Young saw the Salt Lake, he said "This is the place." There is a monument to commemorate the event in Temple square. I also know about the miracle of the sea gulls, which is pretty cool. (I visited Temple Square the last time I drove thru Utah.)

You're right, come July 24th I will probably not remember its significance. But since you point out it's importance to you, I will try to.

I'm impressed. It's hard to stump a UU!

 

[Pah]

Well, if you didn't get it from me previous posts and from my answers to your PM's, I give up.
I've been told by more than one person that my communication "skills" suck. I've tried to explain my position and have once again failed.... one of the many reasons for my screen name.

I must be dense because I didn't see what part of your faith was being attacked. I don't see where I've attacked anything but a meme, a custom, a tradition. Could you elucidate these points of attack for me again?

You have said that you don't feel that you have privilege because you are a Christian - I can understand that. But I don't see why you take offense at my saying Chrstianity, as a social structure, has privilege. That's what I didn't hear from your communication.

 

[michel]

No luck. I think that's a pretty offensive list. I'm surprised it was posted by a mod.

Darkdale; I am sorry - why do you find the list offensive?

Good form.
Sorry I didn't see it that way... if this forum can be used as an example, I would say that most of these "observations" about privilage are bunk.
I love ya, but give me a break... this list is not about "privilege", it is just a not-so-subtle way to Christian bash.

Privilege is getting jobs.... wealth.... status in society..... this list talks about unsubstantianed social nonesense.

Give me a wealth, power, and status and they can keep Santa Claus.... deal?

Maybe you do see the privilredges are bunk, Scott, but I most certainly don't see it as a not so subtle way to Christian-bash; I know I am not an American, but I see it as more of an exagerated truism about the fact that Religious faith (and in America the Christian faith - coincidentally)is so important.

The fact that the population of a country are pretty deeply involved in Religion (and so is the 'leader' of that Country) is bound to have an effect of making those who do not subcribe to that Faith see the situation as one where belief in that faith will give one advantages - it is sheer logic; I do not see it as a criticism; more of an observation.




Don't forget, I am a Christian too - I would not sit and see Christianity 'bashed'; please, relax and look at the thread a little more objectively

If it is a reflection of life as you see it, and that is what you believe, you have everyright to do so...........

 

[Snowbear]

Whoa there!...

Why are you slamming a post I deleted days ago? At least pick one of the more recent ones.

 

[michel]

Why are you slamming a post I deleted days ago? At least pick one of the more recent ones.

Hey, sorry, I picked up a reference to it in someone else's post as a quote - Not surprising I had to give up looking for the original!:biglaugh:

Edit: Stewpidloser - is that better ? - again, sorry!

 

[lilithu]

Good point. I'll work on that - I couldn't even remember the name a few weeks later which should tell you how much work I have to do.

Jonny, thank you so much for being willing to talk and listen about this subject. You don't know how much that means to me.

I'm impressed. It's hard to stump a UU!

Well, I must admit a slight unfair advantage. My parents went to Brigham Young University for grad school.

 

[Aqualung]

I'm impressed. It's hard to stump a UU!

so am I! I read that line, and thought to myself, "that must be jonny's birthday!" :biglaugh: Good job lilithu!:clap

 

[Ceridwen018]

I have a few things to say.

First of all, no one can deny the "Christian Privilege." You are all making a wonderful, (though I must admit, slightly humorous), attempt, but to no avail. In fact, I am shocked that anyone would even think to deny it. Over 75% of Americans, (and growing), are Christian. It is common knowledge that "being Christian" is equated with "being normal" in many instances in this country. The items that Pah listed in the OP are very real--one should sooner deny their own arm, or something equally ridiculous.

In fact, as a non-Christian myself, I would have to say that I am actually slightly offended that so many Christians would be offended by this, not to mention so eager to deny it and keep living their lives as if nothing was wrong. "What right do they have to be offended," I ask myself, "when they are the very ones with the power and privilege!"

That said, this thread was never meant to be offensive to anyone, least of whom the Christians. In psychological terms, your, (the Christian posters who fit this description), automatic assumption that it was offensive, coupled with your immediate caustic replies only lends inself as evidence to possible underlying insecurities that you all may have over this very issue. I fail to understand why some people, whenever something with even the slightest connotation of negativity is said about them or their religion, feel the need to shout, "Persecution! Unfair! Insulting!"

Here's an idea: Why don't you guys spend a little more time logically explaining why the hypothesis stated in the OP is wrong, rather than whining that everyone is personally attacking you?

 

[Scott1]

First of all, no one can deny the "Christian Privilege."

I don't believe I have... but do you honestly believe this list speaks towards anything even close to an intelligent, reasoned discussion of it?

The items that Pah listed in the OP are very real--one should sooner deny their own arm, or something equally ridiculous.

Hoo boy... yes...
I can talk openly about my religious practices without concern for how it will be received by others.
Right... it is ridiculous to think that ANY Christian could care less about how others feel.

Do I have to go on... did anyone actually read this list... or just reply thinking Christian Privilege is a cool topic and must be 100% accurate?

In fact, as a non-Christian myself, I would have to say that I am actually slightly offended that so many Christians would be offended by this,

We don't care about how other people feel... remember?:bonk:

While I am sure that this shows further my underlying insecurities.... I didn't want to dissapoint.

 

[Pah]

I don't believe I have... but do you honestly believe this list speaks towards anything even close to an intelligent, reasoned discussion of it?

A label of childish is not a denial of Christian privilege but it certainly demeans it. And I recognize that as your right. But in that "put down" you seek to preserve Christian privilege by making it small and sounding petty.

You have assumed that others who have discussed it are unintelligent and unreasoning. That's just short of a personal attack on Ceridwen018, lilithu, and myself. These are the ones that come to mind that have discussed it - other have had comments in favor of our discussion, not to mention the frubals and PM's I've received.

Though a marjority, and this is a majority of the comments, does not make it a truth, it is a consensus and that, Scott, should demand more from you than "put downs". If you are to be believed, you really should speak to the issue with the intelligence and reason you demand of others.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I can have a “Jesus is Lord” bumper sticker or Icthus (Christian Fish) on my car and not worry about someone vandalizing my car because of it.

Well, I can say that my pagan bumper stickers, including my "Goddess Bless America" one, got many scratches on my car. I even parked way out in a parking lot, only to find a new dent when I got back to my car.