A Bunch of Reasons Why I Question Noah's Flood Story:

[robocop (actually)]

You're evading my point my making false accusations.

Isn't Jesus sinning when he assaults people minding their own business, and not doing anything to Jesus at all?

Jesus was trying to spread His kingdom on earth and by ripping people off they were stopping Him.
His life was almost over; He wanted to make His mark; that was the issue He chose to be represented by.
If you think He picked a bad issue than that is your privelege.

 

[robocop (actually)]

So you find slavery immoral if it happens to you. But not other people?

"It's a bittersweet symphony this life... try to make ends meet, you're a slave to money, than you die" - The Verve.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Going to bed... I'm going to bet I get 9 posts when I come back.

 

[F1fan]

Christianity is a unique approach.

It's a theological buffet. You can be a very liberal Universalist or an uber conservative White Supremacist and they, and everyone in between, is a Christian. The consistency does not exist. It is a religion of "anything goes".

Many Christians may be corrupt but hopefully they are better than they would be without their religion.

How is being corrupt less corrupt when you're a Christian? Better at what, the self-deception that you're a Christian and corrupt and it's OK some how?

We are just trying to do the best we can to help humanity. And yes there are wolves among us making us worse.

Good people help humanity. Bad people harm humanity. Religion doesn't make bad people good.

I'm just saying when I've talked about the underlying principle of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the plan of Salvation, I feel I've defended it quite well on the Internet.

Unfortunately the wikipedia page isn't very good so let me try to explain it.

We existed as intelligences in the pre-mortal existence. We were to go to earth to be tested to see if we would show ourselves worthy of coming back to God's presence. Some of us followed Lucifer and wanted to have no choice; they never made it to earth. When we come to earth we forget what happened before so we can be tested properly. The Spirits that didn't make it try to get in our way. Other spirits try to help us. When we die our bodies go to the grave and our spirits go to spirit prison or paradise. Those in paradise preach to those in prison and they will know the truth and it's not to late to accept it, but it's harder to repent without bodies. At the judgement our spirits reunite with our bodies. Everyone becomes immortal but we go to different places based on how we judge ourselves. In the highest place we can create our own Universes under guidance of God.

This is all fine and well if you say it to another believer. You all assume the same basic ideas. As an argument it's a complete failure BECAUSE of the assumptions that are not only not based in fact, they often contradict fact.

The basic notion of salvation as a literal concept is absurd. That God has to rape a moral women to have a mortal child that it will then use as a sacrifice to itself to redeem the very sins that God allowed to happen, if not deliberately create, is so Rube Goldberg. I suggest interpreting all these concepts, from the OT to the Gospels ONLY symbolically will actually be reasonable and be coherent to objective minds. It's the literalism that has created a complete divide for believers from reality to religious belief. Of course believers will side with belief because it is easy, and has the power of social pressure and conformity behind it. Reason is hard, it requires learning the skill of logic. It requires courage and self-reliance, the very things that Christianity wrings out of believers.

 

[F1fan]

"It's a bittersweet symphony this life... try to make ends meet, you're a slave to money, than you die" - The Verve.

Not an answer. You are avoiding the flaws in your beliefs. Even the Bible can't offer you wisdom so you have to resort to rock star lyrics.

 

[robocop (actually)]

It's a theological buffet. You can be a very liberal Universalist or an uber conservative White Supremacist and they, and everyone in between, is a Christian. The consistency does not exist. It is a religion of "anything goes".


How is being corrupt less corrupt when you're a Christian? Better at what, the self-deception that you're a Christian and corrupt and it's OK some how?


Good people help humanity. Bad people harm humanity. Religion doesn't make bad people good.


This is all fine and well if you say it to another believer. You all assume the same basic ideas. As an argument it's a complete failure BECAUSE of the assumptions that are not only not based in fact, they often contradict fact.

The basic notion of salvation as a literal concept is absurd. That God has to rape a moral women to have a mortal child that it will then use as a sacrifice to itself to redeem the very sins that God allowed to happen, if not deliberately create, is so Rube Goldberg. I suggest interpreting all these concepts, from the OT to the Gospels ONLY symbolically will actually be reasonable and be coherent to objective minds. It's the literalism that has created a complete divide for believers from reality to religious belief. Of course believers will side with belief because it is easy, and has the power of social pressure and conformity behind it. Reason is hard, it requires learning the skill of logic. It requires courage and self-reliance, the very things that Christianity wrings out of believers.

I meant hopefully Christianity makes them less corrupt.

These are your ideas about good and bad not shared by everyone and many accusations you make aren't based on universally acknowledged reasons.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Not an answer. You are avoiding the flaws in your beliefs. Even the Bible can't offer you wisdom so you have to resort to rock star lyrics.

I have answered about slavery twice but you don't care so I hummed a song about it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I would say exodus 20. Originally it had no spacing or cantillation marks or anything.

Exodus 34. And it is made quite clear that these are the same Ten Commandments that were on the tablets that Moses broke:

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 34 - New International Version

If you remember the story, after breaking the first set he went back up the mountain and got a second one. Supposedly with the original Commandments on them. Read them and you will see why no one tends to talk about them.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It depends on how many believe it.

No, it doesn't.


An insane belief is an insane belief, regardless of how many people believe it or not.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Leonard Susskind admitted it in my opinion.

That's 1 person. You said "basically ALL physicists".

Also, I'm not seeing any evidence that this one person believes such. Your opinion is of no interest.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Your list is forbidden by the 10 commandments, not practiced in Judaism, and against the NT.

Have you read the 10 commandments? In full? Not just the condensed list where the commandments are summarized in 5 words each?

It sounds like you haven't.

Then, off course, there are also the other 603. There are 613 in total, you know...

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Not at all. He doesn't punish people for not believing in the flood but the story teaches morality.

He punishes people for not believing, full stop.

And by hiding all the evidence, and even planting false evidence, he makes sure that no person has actual rational reasons to believe any of it.

So yes, very much yes: he rewards gullibility (belief on faith) and punishes rational reasoning (only believe those things that can be properly justified with evidence).

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It makes the Bible have utility.

The point went flying over your head.


Star Wars has "utility" in the same way.
So does Lord of the Rings.
So does Dragonball Z.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

When people can believe some things can be done by God, they are not being lied to if they think something wasn't done by God. They simply didn't consider it.

So in your opinion, hiding evidence and planting false evidence, is not dishonest / deceiving?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If you keep the commandments and try to understand God instead of judging, I think you will be better off.
Slaves were supposed to be treated well.
Genocide because humanity was destroying itself anyway.

Let's just nuke Afghanistan and kill them all. Because afghans are destroying themselves anyway.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

For instance my church does a great amount of humanitarian aid.

So we are just going to ignore all secular humanitarian aid?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Seems like if Yahweh knew slavery was bad, it would have maybe been one of the Commandments or something.

Clearly not owning human beings as private property wasn't as important as not eating shrimp or the fabric that clothes are made off.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Good people make good believers, bad people make bad theists, but religion doesn't make bad people good.

But religion does have that nasty ability of making otherwise good people act badly though...

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You don't give people 2021 morals in 600 bc.

Why not?

It seems to me that it could have prevented a whole lot of suffering and nastyness.

Imagine a world where it was made clear in 600BC that slavery is not okay, for starters.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

So morals change? Why?

Doesn't;t that open the door to any human insisting they have the newest version of morality? Look at suicide bombers exploiting this loophole. Can you say they are wrong? Maybe they are doing God's will and you are living with obsolete morals, possible?

In the words of Sam Harris who was addressing William Lame Craig's asanine "divine command theory":

If that is how you define morality, then the only thing you can say about the suicide bomber, is that he is worshipping the wrong god. If his god was the right god, then his suicidal behavior would be considered good.