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A Personal View About Visions

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well, if you believe so, you might be right too. Perhaps you can self-induce yourself into a kind of hypnotism through meditation. I am not aware how that works.

Ben:bow:

You get used to it, lol. Hypnotism is not involved, as it is almost the very opposite. Do you understand meditation, Ben?

Visions occur in a waking state during meditation. The prophets were experts at this, this is how they achieved prophesy.
That is a tad bit of an overstatement. Sadly, your first statement is accurate; while your second statement remains assertion. As to prophesy, they don't exactly have a great track record, now, do they?
 
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Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
BenMasada:
Of the several of your posts that I have read the following quote of your words is the clearest that I have read...


... written by you although I have the distinct feeling that you did not mean it in the way that I interpret it. I take your "control it into his understanding " to represent,IMO,' INTERPRETATION' by the individual with such being under control of a personal 'BIAS'.

If you use visions or dreams as the operative words then, to paraphrase Humpty Dumpty ,`it means just what (it is) choose(n) to mean -- neither more nor less' just simple BIASED INTERPRETATION.

No Charlotte, nor really interpretation but auto-suggestions leading to an outcome which could be the solution for the predicament of the dreamer or lucid dreamer.

First of all, the dreamer can not interpret or be a guide in the process of the dream. He or she is unconscious. It has to be during the phase of lucid dream or vision,
when the imagination takes control. To interpret dreams fall into another expertise.

Ben :confused:
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Or maybe it's "young" and "old" that are the metaphors.


You might have a point in there somewhere, considering that it's of the young to have visions to be fulfilled in their perhaps long life to live yet. The old only have
dreams of their unfulfilled visions of the time of youth.

Ben :sad4:
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
hmm....OK :) i am trying to understand, so excuse me if my questions are silly. i have one more. what do you call visions one sees while awake? like sitting on your sofa, closing your eyes and you're in somewhere else. but you're not sleeping at all. (that's what i call vision btw)

What's the meaning of "btw"? Anyone out there. Thanks.

Ben :shrug:
 

Darkwater

Well-Known Member
I am completely with you on your interpretation of the visions or dreams that the Prophets had,all of which fit human template thought perfectly subject to any flaws in their interpretation.

As well as the one's which you mention,my favourite is *Jacobs Ladder*,*Jacobs pillow residing in Scotland which we would refer to as our stone of destiny.....

These visions are template or commonplace & come to you when you have a particular problem,a great iniquity you maybe perceive,which maybe allign with a greater truth & a greater yet truth....or not as the case may be.

An outdoor pursuit,most prevalent in shepherds would you say?

I have a theory on the resonation required or helpful to the intuition side of things,at first I thought it was the stars which the guys slept under yet now feel it is something much closer to home.

Namaste

Andy
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
I am completely with you on your interpretation of the visions or dreams that the Prophets had,all of which fit human template thought perfectly subject to any flaws in their interpretation.

As well as the one's which you mention,my favourite is *Jacobs Ladder*,*Jacobs pillow residing in Scotland which we would refer to as our stone of destiny.....

These visions are template or commonplace & come to you when you have a particular problem,a great iniquity you maybe perceive,which maybe allign with a greater truth & a greater yet truth....or not as the case may be.

An outdoor pursuit,most prevalent in shepherds would you say?

I have a theory on the resonation required or helpful to the intuition side of things,at first I thought it was the stars which the guys slept under yet now feel it is something much closer to home.

Namaste

Andy


Now, it's your turn to embellish a little my research on dreams and visions, as you use the word "interpretation."
I did not interpret the dreams and visions of the Prophets and far from me to claim that power of interpretation.
I just forwarded my personal view about dreams and visions or lucid dreams, which in my opinion brings the same connotation.

Ben :confused:
 

Darkwater

Well-Known Member
Dreams and visions. They are very closely related. "And our old men will have dreams; and our young will have visions." (Joel 2:28) But these are dreams and visions in the metaphorical meaning of ideals and intellectual development.

Normal dreams occur when we are deeply sleeping. And everyone dreams; and we dream every time we are asleep. Many think they don't because 75 percent of dreams are forgotten as we wake up.

What is the difference between dreams and visions? To dream, everyone does, although only 25 percent remember to have dreamed. To have a vision, one must be self-trained to be in control of the dream, which will then become a lucid dream. The ancient Israelite Prophets were pretty good experts at it.

Visions are known as lucid dreams, and they occur during that period of transition between deep sleep and the awaken state. But they mostly happen during a slumber,
as we take a rest and can't fall asleep because of preoccupations about what has been happening to us or to our significant ones.

A classical example of the above, we have in Abraham, when soon after his circumcision, he tried to rest at the entrance of his tent under the shade of a large tree to take advantage of the fresh breeze in the heat of the day. (Gen. 18:1,2) He could not stop worrying about Sarah's barren condition vis-a-vis God's promise of a son. He would worry also about his nephew Lot in Sodom in the middle of corruption. Thus, he slumbered and had a lucid dream or vision, which he, almost involuntarily would control it into his understanding through his imaginations as how things would take a turn either this or that way. Then, he saw in his lucid dream/vision the Divine confirmation of the promise, and even Sarah laughing from her tent at the idea of giving birth to a child as the old woman that she was.

Then, in the same lucid dream/vision, he would change scenery as his imagination went from Sarah to Lot in Sodom. Then, he would dialog with Divine emanations in the human forms of messengers who would speak with him on behalf of God about His promised heir and about Sodom.

The same thing happened with Ezekiel, the Prophet when he was in Babylon at the end of the exile. He would worry about Israel and the eminent return. In his vision he would be lifted up in the air and transported to Israel, where what he would deal with, was so virtual that an uskilled reader would bet he was actually in Israel. (Ezek. 8:1) The truth is that he never actually left Babylon. It had been all in the lucidity of his imaginations.

The Prophets had rich imaginations which they would use during lucid dreams or visions in order to find solutions and sound advices to kings or people in charge of the Governments of nations. I am not ruling out here the Divine intervention, but through emanations in the minds of the Prophets or even in some of the common people.

Now, during dreams, lucid dreams or visions, everything is possible, even to see God and live. In fact, some Prophets thought they would die because of the intensity with which they would self-induce themselves into believing that they really had seen
God, when everything had occurred during a lucid dream or vision.

Of course, the imagination functions according to the mental or religious orientation
of the dreamer or visionary.

Now, I woud like to welcome any comments.

Ben

Sorry Ben my bad.
I didn't mean that you attempt to interpret dreams as such,just that you have a good handle on what these guys experienced,you interpret or explain in a casual & easily understandable way the process of inducing human template thought on dimensions past the here & now 3d linear concept of time for greater insight.

As such your interpretation of the thought process is very pleasing & dlightful to read imho,be it opinion upon how the thought process known as dreams or visions.

It is perhaps explained best in the/an allegory of adam & eve in the garden.

It is all about resonation.imho

:)
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Sorry Ben my bad.
I didn't mean that you attempt to interpret dreams as such,just that you have a good handle on what these guys experienced,you interpret or explain in a casual & easily understandable way the process of inducing human template thought on dimensions past the here & now 3d linear concept of time for greater insight.

As such your interpretation of the thought process is very pleasing & dlightful to read imho,be it opinion upon how the thought process known as dreams or visions.

It is perhaps explained best in the/an allegory of adam & eve in the garden.

It is all about resonation.imho

:)

That's more likely. You have got a good grip on the point of the matter.

Ben :rainbow1:
 

Darkwater

Well-Known Member
Core human thought is healthy as your neurons & everything are alligned,chakra performing perfectly to channel universal energy,creation best explained in the Merkabah which involves Jewish Archangel Pantheon or Judaeo/christian Pantheon.

Very well illustrated in Brahman Tridosha,where the Void is properly addressed,the place where everything divides & multiplies or *made manifest*.

I am a pioneer in this field,the foremost expert I know on the existance of void throughout every pantheon & before labels were attached to the beings of greater duration.

S H I L O H could maybe just mean re-allignment?
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Core human thought is healthy as your neurons & everything are alligned,chakra performing perfectly to channel universal energy,creation best explained in the Merkabah which involves Jewish Archangel Pantheon or Judaeo/christian Pantheon.

Very well illustrated in Brahman Tridosha,where the Void is properly addressed,the place where everything divides & multiplies or *made manifest*.

I am a pioneer in this field,the foremost expert I know on the existance of void throughout every pantheon & before labels were attached to the beings of greater duration.

S H I L O H could maybe just mean re-allignment?

Yes, I think you are right about being Shiloh re-alignment in the course of selection
of the Jewish People. That's a mystery which, I won't blame you if you do not understand.

Ben:confused:
 

Darkwater

Well-Known Member
Have you ever studied *ye grande plan of universal cause*(I have deliniated 2 *layers* of this & show it on another thread of mine)

I believe it is rooted in Kaballah.
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Have you ever studied *ye grande plan of universal cause*(I have deliniated 2 *layers* of this & show it on another thread of mine)

I believe it is rooted in Kaballah.

I have no initiation in Kaballah. Why don't you give us a glimpse of what the grand
plan of universal cause is about?

Ben :confused:
 

SpiritualBeing

Active Member
I do believe in Oracular/Lucid Dreams/Visions, but I do not believe that we have got any control over them. I myself have had Oracular Dreams that have come to pass, and have taken great solace in what they showed me. If it wasn't for an Oracular Dream, then I would never have developed my Spiritual healing.

I believe that Dreams/Visions are a way of Spirit commining with the person in question, and that we have no way of controlling the will of God or Spirit. If you've ever had that sense of Deja Vu, then you have seen the event previously, in your subconcious mind, but have just not remembered it until needed.
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
I do believe in Oracular/Lucid Dreams/Visions, but I do not believe that we have got any control over them. I myself have had Oracular Dreams that have come to pass, and have taken great solace in what they showed me. If it wasn't for an Oracular Dream, then I would never have developed my Spiritual healing.

I believe that Dreams/Visions are a way of Spirit commining with the person in question, and that we have no way of controlling the will of God or Spirit. If you've ever had that sense of Deja Vu, then you have seen the event previously, in your subconcious mind, but have just not remembered it until needed.

It takes training to be able to control lucid dreams. That's where most of the visions happen.
I can attest to the fact myself. I don't claim to have had visions. But I have in a few occasions
been able to control lucid dreams in a way to reach a desired goal.

Deja Vu are life experiences that have fallen into forgetfulness but remained recorded in the subconscious
to pop up in dreams or to memory when a familiar environment presents itself. Deja Vu can come about even
from passive visual experiences like in a picture or movie or a place in Nature.

Ben :confused:
 

SpiritualBeing

Active Member
Yes, I believe what you've said of Deja Vu is true, to an extent. I believe that dfreams are gifted to us by the Divine, and that it is not our place to control them. It is the same with people that believe in Euthanasia. Was it not God who gave us life? So then, should it not be God that takes it away, and not Man.

It is not our place to control dreams that have been sent for a reason by God.
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
I enjoyed reading it even twice. I hope I am mistaken, but I couldn't help
detacting some tendence in your views to be a little too attached to religious visions, which would explain your saying that they can happen at full consciousness. Then again, maybe you are right but I still need more reasearch on that. I can't take that point at the first glance.
With practice, "full consciousness" can eventually be perceived as a form of lucid dream.
 
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