A Question for fellow Christians.

[Francine]

There can't be. If Jesus Christ atoned for the sins of all who would accept Him, Adam was forgiven for his sin (or transgression). The concept of original sin would only make sense if we thought that somehow God did not accept Adam's repentence. He could not pass on a sin he had been forgiven of.

Its not sin that Adam passed on, it's the fallen state that resulted from that sin, and we still must wait for the Second Life to become fully restored to the original state.

 

[tomspug]

But not one of is held personally accountable when we are judged.

Where is THAT in the Bible?

we still must wait for the Second Life to become fully restored to the original state.

Exactly.

 

[ChristineES]

The New Testament clearly states that those who believe in God are not judged and those who don't have already been judged.

 

[Francine]

The New Testament clearly states that those who believe in God are not judged and those who don't have already been judged.

Everyone is judged according to their works.

Rev.20:[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 

[ChristineES]

This is the verse I got it from:

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God.

And while I can't prove anything from this verse taken out of context, this says what I meant.

 

[doppelganger]

This is the verse I got it from:

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God.

And while I can't prove anything from this verse taken out of context, this says what I meant.

What does "believeth on him" mean?

 

[ChristineES]

What does "believeth on him" mean?

Oh, sorry. It means "believes in him", at least that is what I get from other translations. I shouldn't have used that translation. :sorry1:

 

[Francine]

What does "believeth on him" mean?

It means you believe that he is equal to God the Father, that he became flesh, was crucified by Pontious Pilot, died, was buried, and rose the third day to eternal life.

 

[doppelganger]

It means you believe that he is equal to God the Father, that he became flesh, was crucified by Pontious Pilot, died, was buried, and rose the third day to eternal life.

Where does the author of "John" say that's what "believe on him" means?

 

[Francine]

Where does the author of "John" say that's what "believe on him" means?

It's self-evident. To believe "in" someone means you accept their existence. When I was a kid I believed in the tooth fairy. That's not sufficient in the case of Jesus, just to believe that he exists. To believe "on" someone means you accept what that person represents.

 

[ChristineES]

It's self-evident. To believe "in" someone means you accept their existence. When I was a kid I believed in the tooth fairy. That's not sufficient in the case of Jesus, just to believe that he exists. To believe "on" someone means you accept what that person represents.

There are people who believe that Jesus existed but do not believe He is the Son of God or God Himself. Some Muslims believe Him to be a prophet. When my mother was agnostic she believed He existed but was only a good man (at least that is what she said.)

 

[Katzpur]

Its not sin that Adam passed on, it's the fallen state that resulted from that sin, and we still must wait for the Second Life to become fully restored to the original state.

I agree. The reason I responded as I did was that Christine had said that "their sin of disobedience was passed on to us."

 

[Katzpur]

*sigh* You know, Ratiocinative, I had started a post in which I addressed every one of your statements, and then I simply realized that I'm talking to someone who is clearly living in a dream world. Maybe you could just answer a couple of questions for me:

Do you believe that, as a Christian, it's your responsibility to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ to people you come in contact with?

If the answer is 'yes,' could you tell me why? Because based on everything you've said, every person in the world is going to instinctively gain all of the knowledge and understanding he or she needs without anybody's help.

If the answer is 'no,' why did Jesus tell his Apostles to spread His gospel to the people of every nation?

 

[zookeeper]

Where is THAT in the Bible?

There are other references of personal accountability in the bible. But a good one is Ezekiel chapter 18. The mormon article of faith says it pretty plainly..."We believe man will be punished for their own sins and not for Adams transgression."

 

[Ratiocinative]

*sigh* You know, Ratiocinative, I had started a post in which I addressed every one of your statements, and then I simply realized that I'm talking to someone who is clearly living in a dream world. Maybe you could just answer a couple of questions for me:

Do you believe that, as a Christian, it's your responsibility to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ to people you come in contact with?

If the answer is 'yes,' could you tell me why? Because based on everything you've said, every person in the world is going to instinctively gain all of the knowledge and understanding he or she needs without anybody's help.

If the answer is 'no,' why did Jesus tell his Apostles to spread His gospel to the people of every nation?

Where exactly did I say that? All I said was that God will make certain that everyone who is seeking him will find him, and that sometimes this occurs through visions. The problem is that most people don't seek God and aren't interested in the truth. They're merely interested in doing what they want to do, and not really interested in finding God. People constantly demonstrate this time and time again when they ask others to prove God exists, but yet they don't actually make any effort to find the truth themselves.

When I wanted to find out the truth about God I didn't go ask other people to tell me the answer, I went searching for it myself. I was raised as Christian, tho I left the church for 4 years prior, but I didn't go directly to pro-Christian sources because I wanted to hear arguments for and against different religions. I didn't let anyone's opinion influence me and stuck to what the facts said. I spent time examining historical evidence, arguments for and against many religions, and reading different religious books. I spent 6, 8, even 10 hours a day doing research, and I read nearly the entire Bible in a week. I did this for at least a month before coming to the conclusion that Christianity was the truth about God, though I wasn't totally convinced and kept asking God to tell me what the truth was. Finally I did receive a vision in which Jesus said something along the lines of "You're on the right track, but you need to make a bigger room for me.". At the time I wasn't quite sure exactly what it meant, but he said I was headed in the right direction so I kept going.

My point is that people don't find God because they aren't looking for him. What reason God have to show himself to you if you are neither seeking or even trying to do what's right? God isn't like people, he knows he's supreme and has no need to prove himself to anyone, so the "show yourself or else" mentality wont attract any attention from him. If you're really interested in finding God then prove it by making an effort to do what is right an unbiased effort in searching for the truth. If you're wanting to know the truth about God then you'll be more than willing to do these things. By refusing to do these things you prove that you don't have any real interest in knowing the truth, so the blame falls upon the individual and not God.

 

[Katzpur]

Where exactly did I say that? All I said was that God will make certain that everyone who is seeking him will find him, and that sometimes this occurs through visions. The problem is that most people don't seek God and aren't interested in the truth. They're merely interested in doing what they want to do, and not really interested in finding God. People constantly demonstrate this time and time again when they ask others to prove God exists, but yet they don't actually make any effort to find the truth themselves.

When I wanted to find out the truth about God I didn't go ask other people to tell me the answer, I went searching for it myself. I was raised as Christian, tho I left the church for 4 years prior, but I didn't go directly to pro-Christian sources because I wanted to hear arguments for and against different religions. I didn't let anyone's opinion influence me and stuck to what the facts said. I spent time examining historical evidence, arguments for and against many religions, and reading different religious books. I spent 6, 8, even 10 hours a day doing research, and I read nearly the entire Bible in a week. I did this for at least a month before coming to the conclusion that Christianity was the truth about God, though I wasn't totally convinced and kept asking God to tell me what the truth was. Finally I did receive a vision in which Jesus said something along the lines of "You're on the right track, but you need to make a bigger room for me.". At the time I wasn't quite sure exactly what it meant, but he said I was headed in the right direction so I kept going.

My point is that people don't find God because they aren't looking for him. What reason God have to show himself to you if you are neither seeking or even trying to do what's right? God isn't like people, he knows he's supreme and has no need to prove himself to anyone, so the "show yourself or else" mentality wont attract any attention from him.

Ratio, I actually agree with quite a bit of what you have said. I just think you're over-simplifying and over-generalizing.

If you're really interested in finding God then prove it by making an effort to do what is right an unbiased effort in searching for the truth. If you're wanting to know the truth about God then you'll be more than willing to do these things. By refusing to do these things you prove that you don't have any real interest in knowing the truth, so the blame falls upon the individual and not God.

I'm not sure whether this is directed to me specifically, but I can tell you that I have already completed the search and have found the truth.

 

[Francine]

The mormon article of faith says it pretty plainly..."We believe man will be punished for their own sins and not for Adams transgression."

On the contrary, it is written:

Romans 5:[18] Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. [19] For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[Sola'lor]

On the contrary, it is written:

Romans 5:[18] Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. [19] For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

This scripture agrees with the LDS article of faith.

If Adam hadn't transgressed none of us would have been born. Also all people sin. So without Adams transgression we wouldn't be here to be sinners.

It fits perfectly with LDS doctrine, nothing contrary about that one.

 

[Starfish]

This scripture agrees with the LDS article of faith.

If Adam hadn't transgressed none of us would have been born. Also all people sin. So without Adams transgression we wouldn't be here to be sinners.

It fits perfectly with LDS doctrine, nothing contrary about that one.

Side note: Are we the only Christian church that believes that Adam & Eve couldn't bear children before they were cast out of the garden?

 

[Sola'lor]

Side note: Are we the only Christian church that believes that Adam & Eve couldn't bear children before they were cast out of the garden?

I think so. Too bad though.

It's weird. It seems to go against the basic tenents of Christianity to believe that Adam and Eve could have children in the Garden of Eden.