A Question to 'Anti-Zionists'

[LuisDantas]

Oh, it does not surprise me that there are Druze Israeli. It surprises me that they openly state to be Druze.

Good for them and good for Israel, sure, but I always pictured them as making a very high priority of blending in and not being visible as Druze.

Shows how little I know of them...

 

[jewscout]

Oh, it does not surprise me that there are Druze Israeli. It surprises me that they openly state to be Druze.

Good for them and good for Israel, sure, but I always pictured them as making a very high priority of blending in and not being visible as Druze.

Shows how little I know of them...

Known to be the best trackers in the IDF, sadly those skills are not as prominent amongst the younger generation.

 

[metis]

Oh, it does not surprise me that there are Druze Israeli. It surprises me that they openly state to be Druze.

Good for them and good for Israel, sure, but I always pictured them as making a very high priority of blending in and not being visible as Druze.

Shows how little I know of them...

Also the Baha'i are there with their main temple being in Haifa.

 

[LuisDantas]

Also the Baha'i are there with their main temple being in Haifa.

Yes, that I knew. But Baha'is are not generally known to insist on passing unnoticed. I know a few, even.

 

[Godobeyer]

Israel still uses a millet system, much like the one in the Ottoman Empire. There are separate religious courts and procedures for Jews, Muslims, Druze, and Christians.

millet system done by the politicians ?

then ,How the Politicians choose a racist Rabbi to become the Chief of the Jews ?!!!

As Jewscout said, this is seriously derailing the thread. If you are so interested in understanding the Talmud, maybe make a thread in Judaism DIR asking about it...

I am discuss teaching of Jewish Leader of Talmud and it's effect in politics .

there is a rules Judaism DIR

You aren't understanding what I am saying.

Israel should learn from it's past and present mistakes; however that doesn't negate it's right to exist.

then ,what you meant ?

 

[xkatz]

millet system done by the politicians ?

then ,How the Politicians choose a racist Rabbi to become the Chief of the Jews ?!!!

The leaders of religious communities AFAIK are elected by a small group of politicians. Politicians and rabbis are fallible like anyone else. What he said pertaining to non-Jews isn't a part of normative Jewish belief, practice, or law anyways. Just like how Wahabbi clerics calling non-Muslims apes and pigs has little to do with what Islam teaches I imagine.

I am discuss teaching of Jewish Leader of Talmud and it's effect in politics .

there is a rules Judaism DIR

Judaism DIR doesn't prevent you from asking questions about Judaism or it's practices. If you want to pretend to be an authority on Judaism however, you can do that in the debate section.

then ,what you meant ?

Exactly what you just quoted. In the second sentence of the quote.

 

[Phil25]

Because Jews aren't that special. The world is littered with tribal people who would like sovereignty over their ancient homeland. Think Iroquois or Kurd, I'm sure there are anthropologists on RF who could list and correctly spell a couple hundred of them.

Here is the timeline in a few sentences: A group of violent nomads took over Palestine about 4 millennia ago, killing or oppressing the inhabitants. About 2 millennia ago a people with even better military tools and techniques drove out the remnants of that people. By the 1940's the descendants of those people wanted a country of their own, and were still attached to the environs of Jerusalem. But other people had lived there for the intervening millennia. Neither people is good at sharing.

This has lead to violence and war intractable. But it isn't new. Imagine what would happen if the Iroquois Nation went to the UN demanding that the US government honor all the treaties made.

My question to USonian Zionists is why do only Jews get their "country" back, and not every other people who have been the victims of genocidal policies?

Tom

The Jews arent getting their country back. Its already their country. Around 6 million Jews live in Israel. Many for 4 or 5 generations have been there. You cant drive them out.

 

[Phil25]

T

My question remains, "Why is Zionism important enough for my government to finance wars over, when we have treaties we ignore?".

Tom

Israel is an American ally.

 

[CMike]

It's also the only american ally in the middle east.

Turkey has become a radical islamic state.

 

[ametist]

It's also the only american ally in the middle east.

Turkey has become a radical islamic state.

since when Turkey is a radical islamic country?

 

[CMike]

These explains it.

Turkey

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/28/world/fg-turk-terror28

 

[Godobeyer]

The leaders of religious communities AFAIK are elected by a small group of politicians. Politicians and rabbis are fallible like anyone else. What he said pertaining to non-Jews isn't a part of normative Jewish belief, practice, or law anyways. Just like how Wahabbi clerics calling non-Muslims apes and pigs has little to do with what Islam teaches I imagine.

1- It's just Hatefull speech , inspite that there a verse of Quran talk about the punishement of group sinners of Jews by God ,God transformed them to apes

so some extrem muslims used it to general , that's.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) : asked to don't calling Jews "apes" .

this may help (in arabic ) you can translate it to English

http://www.hurras.org/vb/archive/index.php/t-16202.html

2-if I am correct even the Bible called a group of Jews , "serpent" ?


3 it's not Talmud verse said (as meaning): "Jew are Adam and , non-Jew is non-Adam" ?

Judaism DIR doesn't prevent you from asking questions about Judaism or it's practices. If you want to pretend to be an authority on Judaism however, you can do that in the debate section.

I posted couple threads in Judaism DIR ,everytime i discuss , they ask me "to stop discuss , because it's break the DIR rules" , so i decide to not post thread in Judiasm DIR since i feel that i want to discuss .

 

[Flankerl]

Known to be the best trackers in the IDF, sadly those skills are not as prominent amongst the younger generation.

And then of course there was Amos Yarkoni. Just one of the best soldiers the IDF has ever had, a hero and an Arab.


Apartheid!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

since when Turkey is a radical islamic country?

Some people are given to hyperbole. This article strikes me as more balanced.

 

[jewscout]

1- It's just Hatefull speech , inspite that there a verse of Quran talk about the punishement of group sinners of Jews by God ,God transformed them to apes

so some extrem muslims used it to general , that's.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) : asked to don't calling Jews "apes" .

this may help (in arabic ) you can translate it to English

http://www.hurras.org/vb/archive/index.php/t-16202.html

then perhaps Hamas needs to be taught to be better Muslims, for more than one reason

2-if I am correct even the Bible called a group of Jews , "serpent" ?

not in the Hebrew bible

3 it's not Talmud verse said (as meaning): "Jew are Adam and , non-Jew is non-Adam" ?

not according to Rabbi Yehuda in Masecet Berachot, who rebukes such an idea making it clear that non-jews are as human as jews.

Also take into account that the Talmud is a moment frozen in time, one of the darkest periods in Jewish history and its text reflects that mood. The Oral Law written down when it seemed all hope was lost.

One of the reasons I am for removing authority from the Talmud and returning to a system of true Oral Law that would be more fluid and evolve with the times.

 

[Godobeyer]

then perhaps Hamas needs to be taught to be better Muslims, for more than one reason

Agreed .

as well as the Israeli regime and some israeli people , should change their regime to be more commun by stop to be racism.

not in the Hebrew bible

I know , it's not in Torah or Talmud , it's Christians Bible .

not according to Rabbi Yehuda in Masecet Berachot, who rebukes such an idea making it clear that non-jews are as human as jews.

Also take into account that the Talmud is a moment frozen in time, one of the darkest periods in Jewish history and its text reflects that mood. The Oral Law written down when it seemed all hope was lost.

One of the reasons I am for removing authority from the Talmud and returning to a system of true Oral Law that would be more fluid and evolve with the times.

as i understand , Most of the jews , admit that Talmud which said : Jew is Adam , non-jew is not Adam .

is there other Talmud contradicted/oppesed with that one ?

 

[jewscout]

as i understand , Most of the jews , admit that Talmud which said : Jew is Adam , non-jew is not Adam .

I am sorry are you saying that Jews acknowledge that the Talmud states this, or that "most of the Jews" believe this?

is there other Talmud contradicted/oppesed with that one ?

there are several places where it is clear that the Talmud views non-Jews as people

 

[Godobeyer]

I am sorry are you saying that Jews acknowledge that the Talmud states this, or that "most of the Jews" believe this?

When i post that Talmud , no one reject it

there are several places where it is clear that the Talmud views non-Jews as people

so is this talmud fake or credibale ?

Rabbi Shimon ben Yochai said: The graves of gentiles do not cause ritual impurity in a dwelling as it says (Ezekiel 34:31) "Now, you [Israel] are My sheep , the sheep of My pasture, you are Man (Adam)…" You [Israel, the subject of the verse] are called Man (Adam) and gentiles are not called Man (Adam). Talmud Keritot 6b


it's not clearly said gentiles are not "Adam "

 

[Flankerl]

jewscout before you continue i have to tell you that we(seriously every Jewish member of the forum) have been over the Talmud with Godobeyer again and again.
We have explained to him how it is structured and how the various parts of it are read and interpreted.

And we didnt just do it one time. It didnt help.
Please consider this while you wonder why he wont understand that parts of the Talmud are basically a medieval Forum.


Take care.

 

[jewscout]

jewscout before you continue i have to tell you that we(seriously every Jewish member of the forum) have been over the Talmud with Godobeyer again and again.
We have explained to him how it is structured and how the various parts of it are read and interpreted.

And we didnt just do it one time. It didnt help.
Please consider this while you wonder why he wont understand that parts of the Talmud are basically a medieval Forum.


Take care.

fair enough, thanks