A Question to 'Anti-Zionists'

[Godobeyer]

What the rabbi said is terrible, but what does it have to do with Zionism itself? Just because one person said something stupid means that ALL JEWS don't have a right to self-determination/nationhood?

Cool TOP Rabbi of Israel is stupid .

is not VERY internsting that the top Rabbi of Israel confirmed ,what the ALL JEWS always try hard to deny ?


his teaching is coming from Talmud right ?
IF it's yes .
then , that do you agree that Talmud verse is terrible ?


Yes the jews had the right to be nationhood , but not over the bodies of the innocents of the other nations .

 

[jewscout]

Cool TOP Rabbi of Israel is stupid .

is not VERY internsting that the top Rabbi of Israel confirmed ,what the ALL JEWS always try hard to deny ?


his teaching is coming from Talmud right ?
IF it's yes .
then , that do you agree that Talmud verse is terrible ?


Yes the jews had the right to be nationhood , but not over the bodies of the innocents of the other nations .

by that same logic I can stand firm in the belief that all Muslims want to murder my children based on the rhetoric of Hamas and Muslim Imams who spew genocidal hate speech

thanks for letting me know and adding nothing constructive to the conversation

 

[xkatz]

Cool TOP Rabbi of Israel is stupid .

is not VERY internsting that the top Rabbi of Israel confirmed ,what the ALL JEWS always try hard to deny ?

Jews are no more or less racist/xenophobic than anyone else. It has nothing to do with what Judaism teaches or more Jews believe. Because he was a chief rabbi doesn't mean anything TBH; Judaism has no really heiarchy or leadership so it's not like this guy is a spokesperson for all Jews or even most Israeli Jews.

his teaching is coming from Talmud right ?
IF it's yes .
then , that do you agree that Talmud verse is terrible ?

Maybe he thinks it does, but I am sure it doesn't. But someone with more expertise should answer this *cough* Levite *cough*.

Yes the jews had the right to be nationhood , but not over the bodies of the innocents of the other nations .

And Israel is the only country in the world guilty of this? :sarcastic

 

[Godobeyer]

by that same logic I can stand firm in the belief that all Muslims want to murder my children based on the rhetoric of Hamas and Muslim Imams who spew genocidal hate speech

thanks for letting me know and adding nothing constructive to the conversation

let you know , so you ignore that Talmud ? or you ignore that he told that Talmud ?

there is big different between "hate speech" and "racist teaching "

-Hamas make hate speech because of the crimes that done by Israeli army of Gaza .
-Rabbi told that racist teaching of Talmud , because he is stupid ?!!!

 

[jewscout]

let you know , so you ignore that Talmud ? or you ignore that he told that Talmud ?

there is big different between "hate speech" and "racist teaching "

-Hamas make hate speech because of the crimes that done by Israeli army of Gaza .
-Rabbi told that racist teaching of Talmud , because he is stupid ?!!!

and when Hamas quotes Qur'an in their charter to murder Jews,what is that?

 

[xkatz]

let you know , so you ignore that Talmud ? or you ignore that he told that Talmud ?

there is big different between "hate speech" and "racist teaching "

So by that logic, all Muslims have an innate desire to slam planes into buildings b/c it was sanction by bin Laden...

And if you say bin Laden is not preaching true Islam, then you must be ignoring the Quran and Hadith.

 

[Godobeyer]

Jews are no more or less racist/xenophobic than anyone else. It has nothing to do with what Judaism teaches or more Jews believe. Because he was a chief rabbi doesn't mean anything TBH; Judaism has no really heiarchy or leadership so it's not like this guy is a spokesperson for all Jews or even most Israeli Jews.

so why and who make him chief , if he nothing as you claim ?

Maybe he thinks it does, but it am sure it doesn't. But someone with more expertise should answer this *cough* Levite *cough*.

Is Levite his degree and knowladge more than Rabbi Ovadia Yosef in Israel ?

And Israel is the only country in the world guilty of this? :sarcastic

you really make me laugh by this one

so anyone could made a crime right now , because he is the NOT the only one

 

[xkatz]

so why and who make him chief , if he nothing as you claim ?

Petty politics.

Is Levite his degree and knowladge more than Rabbi Ovadia Yosef in Israel ?

1) Levite is more knowledgeable than I am.
2) Ovadia Yosef is no more of an authority than any other rabbi. He is not some infallible pope who represents Judaism or all Jews. He is fallible and can say erroneous things.
3) Even the sayings and interpretations of the best (or worst) rabbis are up for debate- much like with Muslim clerics.

you really make me laugh by this one

so anyone could made a crime right now , because he is the NOT the only one

I don't see people saying that countries like America, Brazil, China, or Turkey should be dismantled because of their pasts. I don't think the Israeli gov't is perfect but at the same time I see a necessity in the idea and existence of a State of Israel.

 

[Godobeyer]

So by that logic, all Muslims have an innate desire to slam planes into buildings b/c it was sanction by bin Laden...

And if you say bin Laden is not preaching true Islam, then you must be ignoring the Quran and Hadith.

Alqaeda and Bin Laden is our enemy , he hitted USA because crimes of Israel in Palestine .

you must be ingoring his speech , because you don't know Arabic ?

 

[jewscout]

this thread has gone totally off topic...

 

[Godobeyer]

and when Hamas quotes Qur'an in their charter to murder Jews,what is that?

I don't agree with Hamas in some actions

That's wrong if it's used to kill innocent or used to be racist , it's not allowed to them to Quotes from Quran .

if it's used to defend or get freedom from the racist regime of Israel , so allowed to Quotes from Quran .


did you forget to comment on this ? !!!

-Hamas make hate speech because of the crimes that done by Israeli army of Gaza .
-Rabbi told that racist teaching of Talmud , because he is stupid ?!!!

 

[Godobeyer]

Petty politics.

how/why the politics access to religious issue !!!
can you explain more,plz ?

1) Levite is more knowledgeable than I am.
2) Ovadia Yosef is no more of an authority than any other rabbi. He is not some infallible pope who represents Judaism or all Jews. He is fallible and can say erroneous things.
3) Even the sayings and interpretations of the best (or worst) rabbis are up for debate- much like with Muslim clerics.

If you mean Levite , Jewish Rabbi of RF ?

He is welcome to explain to us , with open mind .

I don't see people saying that countries like America, Brazil, China, or Turkey should be dismantled because of their pasts. I don't think the Israeli gov't is perfect but at the same time I see a necessity in the idea and existence of a State of Israel.

So Israel is no guilty , because it's not the ONLY one ,America, Brazil,China and Turkey were too

they are all created over the bodies of the innocents of the other nations ?, Why not Israel ?

we suppose to take lesson from our past , don't we ?

-is not this clear racist statement ?

 

[jewscout]

I don't agree with Hamas in some actions

That's wrong if it's used to kill innocent or used to be racist , it's not allowed to them to Quotes from Quran .

if it's used to defend or get freedom from the racist regime of Israel , so allowed to Quotes from Quran .


did you forget to comment on this !!!

-Hamas make hate speech because of the crimes that done by Israeli army of Gaza .
-Rabbi told that racist teaching of Talmud , because he is stupid ?!!!

I don't agree with what he is saying or how he is using the Talmud.

As to Hamas, they quote Qur'an to justify genocide, and that is equally as deplorable.

in the end you don't seem to be genuinely interested in a constructive discussion and we are now thoroughly off topic

 

[xkatz]

how/why the politics access to religious issue !!!
can you explain more,plz ?

Israel still uses a millet system, much like the one in the Ottoman Empire. There are separate religious courts and procedures for Jews, Muslims, Druze, and Christians.

If you mean Levite , Jewish Rabbi of RF ?

He is welcome to explain to us , with open mind .

As Jewscout said, this is seriously derailing the thread. If you are so interested in understanding the Talmud, maybe make a thread in Judaism DIR asking about it...

So Israel is no guilty , because it's not the ONLY one ,America, Brazil,China and Turkey were too

they are all created over the bodies of the innocents of the other nations ?, Why not Israel ?

we suppose to take lesson from our past , don't we ?

-is not this clear racist statement ?

You aren't understanding what I am saying.

Israel should learn from it's past and present mistakes; however that doesn't negate it's right to exist.

 

[Bunyip]

Israel still uses a millet system, much like the one in the Ottoman Empire. There are religious courts and procedures for Jews, Muslims, Druze, and Christians.




As Jewscout said, this is seriously derailing the thread. If you are so interested in understanding the Talmud, maybe make a thread in Judaism DIR asking about it...




You aren't understanding what I am saying.

Israel should learn from it's past and present mistakes; however that doesn't negate it's right to exist.

What 'right to exist'? What is this 'right', where does it come from?

 

[xkatz]

What 'right to exist'? What is this 'right', where does it come from?

Self determination (international law) | Wex Legal Dictionary / Encyclopedia | LII / Legal Information Institute

 

[Bunyip]

Self determination (international law) | Wex Legal Dictionary / Encyclopedia | LII / Legal Information Institute

No offence mate, but you should read citations before you post them to support your argument. That citation does not actually say what you think it says, it does not in any way shape or form guarantee religious groups the right to nationhood.

You seem to imagine that Israel is being denied a right that all other groups have, but of course they don't. There a many far larger ethnic and cultural groups without self determination or the right to nationhood - the Mong, the Kurds, the Pashtu for example.

 

[xkatz]

No offence mate, but you should read citations before you post them to support your argument. That citation does not actually say what you think it says, it does not in any way shape or form guarantee religious groups the right to nationhood.

Jews are not merely a religious group though. That's been established in this thread already.

You seem to imagine that Israel is being denied a right that all other groups have, but of course they don't. There a many far larger ethnic and cultural groups without self determination or the right to nationhood - the Mong, the Kurds, the Pashtu for example.

I am not saying that it is. But for some reason, people think that self-determination for Jews, which is the very definition of Zionism, is the boogeyman. All groups have such a rights if they want to IMO- That doesn't mean though that every ethno-linguistic group wants to do so , or perceives such a course as sensible, or is not supressed by a government. And self-determination doesn't necessarily mean having a separate nation, it can manifest itself as autonomy such as with Kurdistan or the Basque.

 

[LuisDantas]

Israel still uses a millet system, much like the one in the Ottoman Empire. There are separate religious courts and procedures for Jews, Muslims, Druze, and Christians.

Uh? The Druze admit openly to being Druze in Israel, then?

 

[Tarheeler]

Uh? The Druze admit openly to being Druze in Israel, then?

Israeli Druze - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia