A Universe from Nothing?

[Rick O'Shez]

It might be if it were 'my' Reality, but it is not.

It is actually just a belief you have. One of many.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

You say a lot of s**t like that, which is just a glob of s**t on the Ganges.

I guess the truth hurts.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Hinduism says it even more exactly, which is that Brahman is the world, or Tat tvam asi; 'thou art That'.

No, Hinduism says it differently. Hinduism and Buddhism teach quite different things, so stop trying to muddle things up.

Theravada and Mahayana teach quite different things too, so stop trying to muddle those up.

It might suit your new-age agenda to muddle and misrepresent, but it is misleading and confusing for everyone else.

 

[godnotgod]

While there might be some merit to that statement, basically Buddhism disputes it. The Four Noble Truths state that suffering is a result of ignorance, so it would only be prudent to obviate it (ignorance).

Ignorance exists because there is some false idea in the mind about reality. This false idea comes via learning and knowledge. As I said before, we are already enlightened but fail to realize it, and instead think we must go somewhere or do something like learning or knowledge in order to become enlightened. There is nowhere to go to realize one's enlightened state. It is our ordinary condition, nothing special.

You are like the Christian who thinks man's default state is one of a sin nature. I see his default state as the enlightened state. Realization of one's own enlightenment is not via learning or knowledge. It involves the dropping away of learning and knowledge until there is nothing; until the mind is completely empty of all conceptual thought, even empty of mind itself. It is at that point that a transformation of consciousness can occur.

 

[godnotgod]

I guess the truth hurts.

Hurt I can tolerate; it's the stench that gets to you.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Hurt I can tolerate;

You clearly can't though, and that is because you have a very fragile ego. You like doling it out, but you can't cope when it comes back to you.

 

[godnotgod]

No, Hinduism says it differently. Hinduism and Buddhism teach quite different things, so stop trying to muddle things up.

Theravada and Mahayana teach quite different things too, so stop trying to muddle those up.

It might suit your new-age agenda to muddle and misrepresent, but it is misleading and confusing for everyone else.

You put up barriers where none exist. Where you see opposition, I see harmony, like:

 

[ArtieE]

The fact that a Sun exists outside of Plato's Cave is perfectly verifiable. All that the other prisoners need do is to go see for themselves.

The fact that people are being abducted by aliens is perfectly verifiable. But me having the same experience is hardly any verification that aliens are abducting people.

 

[godnotgod]

You clearly can't though, and that is because you have a very fragile ego. You like doling it out, but you can't cope when it comes back to you.

You're the one whose udders are all in a bunch, and who started this crap to begin with. I just posted a simple quote and you went ballistic.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

There is nowhere to go to realize one's enlightened state. It is our ordinary condition, nothing special.

<sigh>
Do make your mind up. See post #2224:

Rick O'Shez said: ↑
I found a page with some nice Zen quotes:

"Zen is not some special state, it is our normal condition, silent, peaceful, awake, without agitation"
— Master Taisen Deshimaru

GodNotGod replied:

Zen actually really is something special, as Bodhidharma himself stated:

A special transmission outside the scriptures;
No dependence on words and letters;
Direct pointing to the mind of man;
Seeing into one's nature and attaining Buddhahood.
Bodhidharma
http://www.amacord.com/taste/essays/zen.html

It really IS just random emission of Zen cliches where you are concerned, there is nothing behind it.

 

[ak.yonathan]

Ignorance exists because there is some false idea in the mind about reality. This false idea comes via learning and knowledge. As I said before, we are already enlightened but fail to realize it, and instead think we must go somewhere or do something like learning or knowledge in order to become enlightened. There is nowhere to go to realize one's enlightened state. It is our ordinary condition, nothing special.

You are like the Christian who thinks man's default state is one of a sin nature. I see his default state as the enlightened state. Realization of one's own enlightenment is not via learning or knowledge. It involves the dropping away of learning and knowledge until there is nothing; until the mind is completely empty of all conceptual thought, even empty of mind itself. It is at that point that a transformation of consciousness can occur.

If that were the case, then the Buddha's teachings would come naturally to most people, yet most people still cling onto things they think will bring them happiness while trying to avoid those which they think will bring them pain. This is the opposite of what Buddha taught. The Buddha taught that greed, hatred, and delusion is what keeps a person tied to the bhavacakra (wheel of becoming) yet most people still harbor those attitudes anyway. Most people are deluded into believing that working hard will make you successful whilst not realizing that in fact everything is just an illusion, henceforth not worthy to be chased after.

 

[godnotgod]

The fact that people are being abducted by aliens is perfectly verifiable. But me having the same experience is hardly any verification that aliens are abducting people.

Both Sun and Enlightenment are verifiable by anyone without special knowledge or equipment, but even scientific verification is not accessible to everyone.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

You're the one whose udders are all in a bunch, and who started this crap to begin with. I just posted a simple quote and you went ballistic.

Don't play the victim and blame others. I have lost count of the number of ad homs, insults and personal attacks you have launched on me and other contributors here.

You like doling it out, but when it comes back at you you just whinge.

 

[godnotgod]

<sigh>
Do make your mind up. See post #2224:

Rick O'Shez said: ↑
I found a page with some nice Zen quotes:

"Zen is not some special state, it is our normal condition, silent, peaceful, awake, without agitation"
— Master Taisen Deshimaru

GodNotGod replied:

Zen actually really is something special, as Bodhidharma himself stated:

A special transmission outside the scriptures;
No dependence on words and letters;
Direct pointing to the mind of man;
Seeing into one's nature and attaining Buddhahood.
Bodhidharma
http://www.amacord.com/taste/essays/zen.html

The method of Zen transmission is special, as Bodhidharma states, but Zen insight is Nothing Special.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The method of Zen transmission is special, as Bodhidharma states, but Zen insight is Nothing Special.

Whatever. It is all just BS, and you are a fake.

 

[ArtieE]

It is not a personal experience in the sense that it is an experience of the self; it is transcendent of self. It is 'the merging of the observer, the observed, and the entire process of observation into a single Reality', as Deepak Chopra explained.

Except of course my laptop would be here even if nobody observed it. It's real, no matter if it's observed or not.

 

[godnotgod]

Don't play the victim and blame others. I have lost count of the number of ad homs, insults and personal attacks you have launched on me and other contributors here.

I blame you for deliberately seeking to create friction where none is necessary, with your erroneous ideas about Chopra, new age, pseudo science, etc. You come off as a crackpot.

When someone isn't thinking before they post, I may start with 'Duh!', or even refer to them as a dolt, which you can be at times. You should see it as an opportunity to learn something, as you are so enamored of learning.

 

[godnotgod]

Whatever. It is all just BS, and you are a fake.

And you are a real glob of s**t on the Big Banges. Oh, the stench!

You see? I never go on the attack unless first attacked, and you just love to do that, and so I respond in kind. But you are the one who always always instigates the friction. And that means you are the fake Buddhist.

You don't want a discussion. You just want to denigrate because you lack intuitive insight into the true nature of things, and that includes even the Heart Sutra, which you only see in black and white terms. Ben d once pointed out that you have missed something terribly important, and that is the crown jewel of Mahayana.

Maybe you need another 30 years on that mat.

 

[ArtieE]

Both Sun and Enlightenment are verifiable by anyone without special knowledge or equipment, but even scientific verification is not accessible to everyone.

Nothing is verified by me having the same experience as somebody else. It requires independent objective confirmation.

 

[godnotgod]

Except of course my laptop would be here even if nobody observed it. It's real, no matter if it's observed or not.

That's not the point, which is that observer and observed merge as one reality when seen correctly. It is then that you will see the laptop not as real materiality, but as possibility.