A Universe from Nothing?

[outhouse]

Evolution will eventually stop,
as will our existance.

Maybe not.

If we take our species to survive in space, it has the possibility to continue beyond the planets existence,

 

[Aquitaine]

Ad homs apparently are your standard method of debate..... What happens at time = 0 just prior to the appearance of the singularity?

Please, no more Encores ben d.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Please, no more Encores ben d.

Ahhh...but gnostic has posed something completely new to me.....he says the singularity is supposed to be pre-t=0 second. And t=0, is supposed to be the start of the expansion of the universe....so we now have the singularity and time existing before time = 0.

So what is you opinion...do you agree with gnostic? Please do make the effort to respond...

 

[outhouse]

.....he says the singularity is supposed to be pre-t=0 second.

Your probably taking him out of context

we now have the singularity and time existing before time = 0.

NOPE

But that does not mean the material or fabric did not exist prior to its expansion.

By your statement a singularity is space and time, how did you come to that conclusion?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Your probably taking him out of context



NOPE

But that does not mean the material or fabric did not exist prior to its expansion.

By your statement a singularity is space and time, how did you come to that conclusion?

NOPE...I am not taking him out of context...

I said in my post #212..."Let's cut to the chase...what existed at time = 0 when the singularity does not yet exist?"

He replied in his post # 215 ...."You are not making sense... The singularity is supposed to be pre-t=0 second. And t=0, is supposed to be the start of the expansion of the universe."

Now gnostic is saying that the singularity was existing pre-time = 0.....and at actual time = 0, the universe started its expansion phase...

Agree?

 

[james bond]

The time=0 will never be explained. God said He left the beginning and the end out, so as to leave it a mystery.

We found from gravitational waves that gravity is a bend in spacetime. If some particle goes at the speed of light (c), then it conforms to the curve in spacetime and eventually time comes to a standstill at the event horizon or where t=0. However, I don't think the particle or spacecraft or some object going at c ever reaches it, i.e where t=0, because time slows down. Some physicists believe there is a way to get past this phenomenon and approach the gravitational singularity, but I can't explain how one does that and I can't find the Quora article that explained it. Regardless, it's still conjecture. (Don't say cosmology. Cosmology = Philosophy.)

Just when we start to get the hang of quantum mechanics, then I suppose gravitational singularity becomes reality.

I did find someone posting Kip Thorne's explanation:

"It is a one-dimensional point in the centre of a black hole which contains infinite mass in an infinitely small space, where gravity become infinite and space-time curves infinitely, and where the laws of physics as we know them cease to operate. As the eminent American physicist Kip Thorne describes it, it is "the point where all laws of physics break down"."

 

[`mud]

Ripples in the infinite soup of photons,
one upon another, and thense to quite another.
The singularities plasmatize everything,
and the exhausts create the Cosmos.
Everything turned into everything,
no eternity needed.
~
Just a guess !
~
'mud

 

[Aupmanyav]

"All they can say is that the singularity is hot and dense...."
With the absense of movement, distance, or friction,
from where did the heat come ? Where was the heat held.

Yeah, 'mud.

"Darkness there was: at first concealed in darkness this, all was indiscriminated chaos.
All that existed then was void and form less, by the great power of warmth was born that Unit."
RigVeda, Book 10, Hymn 129, Verse 3 http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv10129.htm

.. so we now have the singularity and time existing before time = 0.

That is not what science says. Time may have existed before expansion (inflation), but at the moment we do not know anything beyond inflation. At the moment T=0 for science is 'inflation' and not the Bang, if at all it was there.

 

[`mud]

hey Aup,
I'm gaining more and more respect for your posts !
Copied the link....seems to be good reading.
~
'mud

 

[james bond]

The idea of t < 0 is cosmology and cosmology = philosophy. Scientific cosmology started with Einstein and his paper, 'Cosmological Considerations of the General Theory of Relativity'. Wow.

EDIT: I have to say the idea of negative time is INTERESTING. Does it mean that we can get younger or stay at the age we are? Or does it mean that we can travel back into the past?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

That is not what science says. Time may have existed before expansion (inflation), but at the moment we do not know anything beyond inflation. At the moment T=0 for science is 'inflation' and not the Bang, if at all it was there.

I wish your reading comprehension was better....that was not my position but that of gnostic..with whom I was in debate about this if you had bothered to read the thread.... My own position is that the universe is eternal and nothing can come from nothing....

 

[leibowde84]

The time=0 will never be explained. God said He left the beginning and the end out, so as to leave it a mystery.

We found from gravitational waves that gravity is a bend in spacetime. If some particle goes at the speed of light (c), then it conforms to the curve in spacetime and eventually time comes to a standstill at the event horizon or where t=0. However, I don't think the particle or spacecraft or some object going at c ever reaches it, i.e where t=0, because time slows down. Some physicists believe there is a way to get past this phenomenon and approach the gravitational singularity, but I can't explain how one does that and I can't find the Quora article that explained it. Regardless, it's still conjecture. (Don't say cosmology. Cosmology = Philosophy.)

Just when we start to get the hang of quantum mechanics, then I suppose gravitational singularity becomes reality.

I did find someone posting Kip Thorne's explanation:

"It is a one-dimensional point in the centre of a black hole which contains infinite mass in an infinitely small space, where gravity become infinite and space-time curves infinitely, and where the laws of physics as we know them cease to operate. As the eminent American physicist Kip Thorne describes it, it is "the point where all laws of physics break down"."

How can you quote scientific theories, and at the same time claim that science will never figure certain things out. That is a god of the gaps argument, or the logical fallacy of an argument from ignorance to a tee. No one knows the limits of science. Those are mere beliefs.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Ripples in the infinite soup of photons,
one upon another, and thense to quite another.
The singularities plasmatize everything,
and the exhausts create the Cosmos.
Everything turned into everything,
no eternity needed.
~
Just a guess !
~
'mud

No eternity needed? I can't see anything else but eternity underlying what you have written....

 

[`mud]

Only one word is missing.
"else"
Can you add it ?
~
'mud

 

[Muffled]

I'm not sure if I can post a poll on here but who here believes that the universe originated from nothing? As some of the major scientific theories from the 20th century claimed or was there an originator of some sort? Doesn't have to be God necessarily in your opinion. Who believes the universe has no beginning? I'm just curious as to what you guys believe with regard to this topic and what the basis of your belief would be?

I believe it was all created from nothing. It is no more difficult a concept than to believe it existed.

 

[Muffled]

Gotta ask, what major scientific theories from the 20th century claimed the universe originated from nothing?

I believe science is limited to that which exists materially.

 

[`mud]

hey Muff,
You left out the word 'always'.
~
'mud

 

[Muffled]

I don't see how "something from nothing" is even sensible. Nothingness did not, does not and cannot exist. It is a lack of existence. A lack of laws, mechanisms, ideas and everything else. Once you start attributing properties of any kind to nothingness, you are no longer talking about nothingness. For as long as time has been around, there was something, even if that something was only time itself.

I believe time is related to the motion of objects. ie: how long it takes the earth to go around the sun.

 

[`mud]

And never in the same place again.
~
'mud

 

[Skwim]

I believe science is limited to that which exists materially.

Hardly answers my question, but okay.