A Universe from Nothing?

[`mud]

Hey t=0, I see you've swept up all the leaves,
now take a breath and blow them away !

~
'mud

 

[`mud]

Look out.......
here comes a immense splotch of nothingness,
don't fall in !!!

~
'mud

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Science don't know what occur at t = 0 second, so unless you have something more concrete than what you believe in that's not testable or provable, stop beating a dead horse.

I think the horse beating will continue, but you are entirely correct.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Haha.....all the bluster about speculation and the inability of science to verify what happens at time = 0 does not obscure the facts.....science says there was no time up to the beginning of time...yes?

Science doesn't know. And neither do you.

 

[Aquitaine]

You prove my point....people are not equal...some do not even know that something can't come from nothing...haha...

Either that, or this is evidence that some people have delusions of grandeur.
Whatever you say buddy, I'll add you to the list of all the other self-proclaimed secret knowledge wizards.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Science doesn't know. And neither do you.

But it is elementary logic....claiming no one knows if something can come from nothing is a false claim to protect the big bang hypothesis..... it is a logical impossibility to replicate scientifically....and even mathematically it does not make sense that zero and one are equal..

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Either that, or this is evidence that some people have delusions of grandeur.
Whatever you say buddy, I'll add you to the list of all the other self-proclaimed secret knowledge wizards.

The obtuse are legion....people are not equal....

 

[Aquitaine]

The obtuse are legion....people are not equal....

Oh, pardon me, superior being. Please save me from my ignorance and enlighten me.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Oh, pardon me, superior being. Please save me from my ignorance and enlighten me.

Ok...it's not complicated....

The universe is all there is.....ie., time, space, matter and energy ....yes?

Nothing in the absolute sense is the absence of everything.....ie., time space, matter and energy....yes?

So you mean to say you do not know if all the matter and energy of the universe could have come from the very absence of itself?

Got it?

 

[Aquitaine]

Ok...it's not complicated....

The universe is all there is.....ie., time, space, matter and energy ....yes?

Nothing in the absolute sense is the absence of everything.....ie., time space, matter and energy....yes?

So you mean to say you do not know if all the matter and energy of the universe could have come from the very absence of itself?

Got it?

I do not claim to posses the knowledge of what happened "at the beginning" nor where/how the universe came into being. To be honest, I don't think we'll ever know. People like yourself may claim to know, but they're no wiser than anyone else.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I do not claim to posses the knowledge of what happened "at the beginning" nor where/how the universe came into being. To be honest, I don't think we'll ever know. People like yourself may claim to know, but they're no wiser than anyone else.

You forgot to include the 'if' with the why, what, where, and how that you do not know about the beginning of the universe? How do you know there was a beginning?

 

[Aquitaine]

You forgot to include the 'if' with the why, what, where, and how that you do not know about the beginning of the universe? How do you know there was a beginning?

I don't know - that is what I'm saying - and neither do you.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I don't know - that is what I'm saying - and neither do you.

Well that's fine to speak of your own ignorance...but you don't speak for me...understood? Fyi, the universe is eternal...there was never a beginning because to hypothesize one whereby universal matter and energy came from the absence of universal matter and energy is an obvious impossibility....

It is a known scientific fact that matter and energy can not be made to disappear under any circumstances....therefore it has to have always existed....

Why do you find it difficult to accept the logical conclusion that there was never a beginning to the existence of matter and energy?

 

[Thief]

Ok...it's not complicated....

The universe is all there is.....ie., time, space, matter and energy ....yes?

Nothing in the absolute sense is the absence of everything.....ie., time space, matter and energy....yes?

So you mean to say you do not know if all the matter and energy of the universe could have come from the very absence of itself?

Got it?

contemplation about the void?.....yeah

 

[Ben Dhyan]

contemplation about the void?.....yeah

Yeah...the irony is that the big bangers believe the universe comes from a void...not God as most theists believe....

 

[Thief]

Yeah...the irony is that the big bangers believe the universe comes from a void...not God as most theists believe....

I do place Spirit first.
substance is not 'self' starting of creating

the void is the mind set that's difficult to wrap your head around.
ironically...it might be the same emptiness that some seek in their meditation

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I do place Spirit first.
substance is not 'self' starting of creating

the void is the mind set that's difficult to wrap your head around.
ironically...it might be the same emptiness that some seek in their meditation

Hmmm...when the mind is free from mental interpretation of universal reality....lo...what was previously obscured by the mental interpretation of reality is now directly present to the mind...reality itself. Emptiness does not apply to reality...it applies to the mind because it is free from thought...then there is no separation of mind and reality...the mind and reality are then a unity....

 

[Thief]

when I was reading Genesis I noted the emptiness called....void

and God said ....I AM!

to have spoken when there is no means by which to speak...
to exist when the concept could not be formed.....

so God is not formed
His creation is formed.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

when I was reading Genesis I noted the emptiness called....void

and God said ....I AM!

to have spoken when there is no means by which to speak...
to exist when the concept could not be formed.....

so God is not formed
His creation is formed.

The context of Genesis to my understanding is not, and never was, about the beginning of the universe...but a brief illustrative narrative pertaining to the formation of this solar system and the birth of planet earth, and subsequently the planetary geological and evolutionary stages of mineral to plant, to animal, to the human kingdom, etc... Yes, creation is a divine work whether or not some just call it universal nature....a rose by any other name...

 

[Aquitaine]

Well that's fine to speak of your own ignorance...but you don't speak for me...understood? Fyi, the universe is eternal...there was never a beginning because to hypothesize one whereby universal matter and energy came from the absence of universal matter and energy is an obvious impossibility....

It is a known scientific fact that matter and energy can not be made to disappear under any circumstances....therefore it has to have always existed....

Why do you find it difficult to accept the logical conclusion that there was never a beginning to the existence of matter and energy?

As posters have pointed out: this is going nowhere.
I regret engaging with someone with clear delusions of supreme knowledge of the universe.
Regardless of what I or anyone else in this thread says, it seems clear that your inflated egotistical perspective is blinding you and muting the overall discussion.
Keep on believing you know the answers to the Universe kiddo, I am merely one of the inferior legion obtuse kneeling before your majesty, or whatever.