A Universe from Nothing?

[Thief]

There is a difference between certainty and being cocksure. Besides, you are talking about a future scenario you only believe to be true, and gambling on it, while I am talking about the ego and how it works, something everyone experiences directly in the here and now, and not in some future fantasy based on the ego, which is an illusion to begin with!

Who is it that lives?

Who is it that dies?

You are not 'living life'; life is living itself as 'you'. There is no experiencer of the experience; there is only the experience itself, and what is thought of as 'I' is none other than that experience.

i bet 'you' talk to fallen trees

 

[ArtieE]

i bet 'you' talk to fallen trees

But do the trees talk back...

 

[YmirGF]

But do the trees talk back...

Nope... all you get is barks

 

[Thief]

But do the trees talk back...

oh!..so the fallen trees make a sound!

 

[YmirGF]

oh!..so the fallen trees make a sound!

Yep... though when you put it through my handy-dandy Acme Inter-galactic Translator ring it comes out as, "I've fallen, and I can't get up."

 

[godnotgod]

The definition of "hear" is "Perceive with the ear the sound made by (someone or something)". See oxforddictionaries.com
They both hear the same.

As per your definition, the difference is in the perception of the sound.

 

[godnotgod]

And definition 1a defines pressure waves as sound.

Where is the sound if no one is there to hear it?

 

[godnotgod]

The point is that I understand what the doctrines actually are....

Then tell me the difference between a mind which sees that all phenomena are empty of self-nature, and one which does not.

 

[godnotgod]

I am making a distinction between sound as a physical phenomenon, and our subjective experience of hearing. I am not saying the physical phenomenon doesn't exist, it clearly does.

... but only as pressure waves, until an ear hears it and a brain processess it as 'sound'. Until then, there is no such sound.

 

[godnotgod]

i bet 'you' talk to fallen trees

You need to take a walk in the forest more often.

 

[YmirGF]

... but only as pressure waves, until an ear hears it and a brain processess it as 'sound'. Until then, there is no such sound.

Wound not the "sound" be an existent reality for our ears and brains to detect it? In that regard the sound exists whether we recognize it as such or not. Jus' sayin'....

 

[godnotgod]

Wound not the "sound" be an existent reality for our ears and brains to detect it? In that regard the sound exists whether we recognize it as such or not. Jus' sayin'....

No. What an ear/brain interprets as 'sound' is only pressure waves when no such ear/brain is present. An ear drum or microphone element must vibrate in response to the pressure waves, which must then be processed by a brain via consciousness.

Where do you see 'sound' without ear/brain?

Everyone here is still looking for an independent, objective reality, where none exists. All reality is subjective.

 

[ArtieE]

As per your definition, the difference is in the perception of the sound.

The definition of "hear" is "Perceive with the ear the sound made by (someone or something)". See oxforddictionaries.com

Didn't you understand what "Perceive with the ear the sound made by (someone or something)" means? It means that first something makes a sound and then we hear the sound.

 

[`mud]

Do moving shadows make sounds ?
Does the light source screech to a stop,
when the shadow is formed,
does it move ?
~
"does a fallen tree 'bark'..."
~
Cheeeeeeeeezzzzzzeeewwweeeezzzzz
~
'mud

 

[YmirGF]

No. What an ear/brain interprets as 'sound' is only pressure waves when no such ear/brain is present. An ear drum or microphone element must vibrate in response to the pressure waves, which must then be processed by a brain via consciousness.

Thanks for the patently obvious comment.

Where do you see 'sound' without ear/brain?

Now you are just being silly.

Everyone here is still looking for an independent, objective reality, where none exists. All reality is subjective.

Sounds like you have a rather egotistical view of reality. Reality is all about you and yet "you" are an illusion. So much for your ideas about reality.

 

[godnotgod]

I can only hope that this individual is undergoing appropriate treatment. One place it says he can't claim the universe is here in the absence of observers but in the last line it says "In the absence of observers, our universe is dead." Is it not here or is it dead?

It exists as possibility waves.

 

[ArtieE]

No.

This is the first definition of sound that comes up when I search in Google.

"sound1
saʊnd/
noun

1. 1.
   vibrations that travel through the air or another medium and can be heard when they reach a person's or animal's ear."

When are you going to join us here in the real world?

 

[godnotgod]

Thanks for the patently obvious comment.

Sounds like I answered your original question.

 

[YmirGF]

Sounds like I answered your original question.

Pity you don't seem to grasp the implications of the answer.

 

[godnotgod]

This is the first definition of sound that comes up when I search in Google.

"sound1
saʊnd/
noun

1. 1.
   vibrations that travel through the air or another medium and can be heard when they reach a person's or animal's ear."

Now you contradict yourself by adding: "heard when they reach a person's or animal's ear", which is what I have been telling you all along.