A Universe from Nothing?

[Polymath257]

a self causing Deity.....I can accept
Matter has no 'self' at all

Which means it is even easier for it to not need a cause.

 

[Thief]

Which means it is even easier for it to not need a cause.

'need'.....is a bit more than that

substance is not 'self' starting

the Cause would have to be of Spirit

 

[Polymath257]

'need'.....is a bit more than that

substance is not 'self' starting

the Cause would have to be of Spirit

How do you know 'substance' is not 'self-starting'?

How can 'spirit' be a cause?

 

[Thief]

How do you know 'substance' is not 'self-starting'?

How can 'spirit' be a cause?

it's one or the other
and substance will remain at rest

 

[Ben Dhyan]

In both cases, the force of gravity. But that force causes the *acceleration*, not the velocity. For the pendulum, the velocity is zero at the extremes of the swing. It is gravity tat accelerates it again. At the bottom of the swing, the velocity is a maximum and gravity serves to accelerate it (negatively) so the velocity decreases again. In the case of the orbit of the Earth, the velocity is a vector pointing in the direction of motion. The sun's gravity changes that vector continually, pulling it inward, leading to an orbit.

Correct, movement involves force, time itself is a mental construct and can not cause any movement in the real world..

 

[Polymath257]

Correct, movement involves force, time itself is a mental construct and can not cause any movement in the real world..

Time is no more the cause of movement than space is. Both space and time are required for movement, though.

 

[Polymath257]

it's one or the other
and substance will remain at rest

No, substance will cause other substance to move via gravity (or any of the other forces).

Spirit is a non-existence thing.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Time is no more the cause of movement than space is. Both space and time are required for movement, though.

Apples and oranges is not a fair comparison, time comprises no mass or energy, space comprises all mass and energy. Movement takes place in space, a real aspect of the universe, time as a measurement is a construct of the mind, it is not a real aspect of the universe. Space has a reality beyond the human concept, time has no reality beyond the human concept.

 

[Thief]

Time is no more the cause of movement than space is. Both space and time are required for movement, though.

space is real enough
can't get to point b if there is substance in the way

but time is not required
the movement will happen whether you are there to measure it or not

 

[Thief]

No, substance will cause other substance to move via gravity (or any of the other forces).

Spirit is a non-existence thing.

substance needs to be created
the dead do not beget anything

after the creation...fine
gravity has been created

Spirit first

 

[Polymath257]

substance needs to be created

Why? If 'spirit' doesn't need to be created, why does 'substance'?

the dead do not beget anything

Huh?

after the creation...fine
gravity has been created

And if there *is* no 'before the creation'?

Spirit first

That is you, but you have given no reason to believe it. Nor, for that matter, to believe there is such a thing as spirit.

 

[Thief]

Why? If 'spirit' doesn't need to be created, why does 'substance'?


Huh?


And if there *is* no 'before the creation'?



That is you, but you have given no reason to believe it. Nor, for that matter, to believe there is such a thing as spirit.

you can't follow the reasoning
you have demonstrated that lack of ability all thru this thread

 

[Polymath257]

you can't follow the reasoning
you have demonstrated that lack of ability all thru this thread

And you have not defined your terms. I *am* using reasoning. You are the one making claims that are not substantiated.

 

[Polymath257]

Apples and oranges is not a fair comparison, time comprises no mass or energy, space comprises all mass and energy. Movement takes place in space, a real aspect of the universe, time as a measurement is a construct of the mind, it is not a real aspect of the universe. Space has a reality beyond the human concept, time has no reality beyond the human concept.

Wrong. Space does not have any mass nor technically, energy. Both space and time are required to have mass, energy, and motion.

 

[Thief]

And you have not defined your terms. I *am* using reasoning. You are the one making claims that are not substantiated.

you're waiting for a test result

you will wait until you are dead

then you get to SEE the reasoning

unless of course your spirit fails when your chemistry does
( a serious possibility)

 

[Thief]

Wrong. Space does not have any mass nor technically, energy. Both space and time are required to have mass, energy, and motion.

no...no...no...
time is not required for anything
the measure needs intervals of distance compared to intervals of a metering movement

the motion needs energy and a vector
it does not need to be measured to move

 

[Polymath257]

you're waiting for a test result

you will wait until you are dead

then you get to SEE the reasoning

unless of course your spirit fails when your chemistry does
( a serious possibility)

Your vague threats based on your flawed mythology do not frighten me.

 

[Thief]

Your vague threats based on your flawed mythology do not frighten me.

no need for fear.....and there is no threat

just cause and effect

 

[Polymath257]

no...no...no...
time is not required for anything
the measure needs intervals of distance compared to intervals of a metering movement

the motion needs energy and a vector
it does not need to be measured to move

Motion requires time. In fact, it is the changing of location over time.

 

[Polymath257]

no need for fear.....and there is no threat

just cause and effect

And I think you are seriously wrong.