A Universe from Nothing?

[godnotgod]

There are woolly syncretists who arrogantly claim to have a higher view and try to bang square pegs into round holes, not caring about the mess they make, not caring that they are misrepresenting traditions in a wholesale manner. And there are other people who recognise the diversity and don't do that.

Then there are other people who recognise the connections underneath what are only seeming differences and don't do that. You don't need to DO anything to create unity; it is already there. It is a matter of seeing, rather than discrimination via thought, what is.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The focus being on 'something', because it is in the foreground, causes us to ignore the passive background of nothing, thinking there is only something.

We tend to notice objects rather than the space around them. OK, but what's your point?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Tell that to a guy who would return from a black hole un-aged. Tell them their youth is all a concept in their heads. Thats what experiments in time dilation suggest would happen, movement would continue just outside of time. That is a description of something real not made up, not just a mental construct of measuring movement.

You are still talking of human based perception...maya.......reality is that black holes are ubiquitous throughout the universe in the same now as all else in existence.......the relative perceptions and conceptual opinions of humans does not effect the eternal now....

 

[godnotgod]

No it doesn't fail at all, anyone can try my experiment and the proof is there. It's simple and repeatable, no ifs or buts, and no need for pseudo-spiritual gibberish.

So do my experiment and tell me what happens. Does time come to a grinding halt while you are meditating? Does the clock stop? Does time come to a grinding halt while you are asleep?

Are clocks imaginary? Is night and day imaginary, the tides, the lunar cycle and so on? Or is it really just your theories which are imaginary?

You are confusing Time with Reality.

Time is a conceptual gridwork overlaid ON TO nature; it is not nature itself.

Your little experiment is flawed and sophomoric, and reveals the shallowness of your meditative 'experience'. You say you've been practicing for some 35 years? Better check that clock.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Then there are other people who recognise the connections underneath what are only seeming differences and don't do that. You don't need to DO anything to create unity; it is already there. It is a matter of seeing, rather than discrimination via thought, what is.

There is no "unity", just a wide range of conflicting beliefs and opinions. That is why there are so many religions and sects, people simply cannot agree.

What happens is that some people make up their own personal religion and then try to make some of the established religions fit into it, they need to find support for their ideas.

 

[godnotgod]

We tend to notice objects rather than the space around them. OK, but what's your point?

That something and nothing are inextricably tied one to the other.

 

[syo]

...When you say 'something', it automatically exists against a background of 'nothing'....

did that "something" of yours come to life from that "nothing" of yours? that "nothing" of yours starts things?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Your little experiment is flawed and sophomoric, and reveals the shallowness of your meditative 'experience'.

Have you actually tried my experiment? What happened? You still haven't been able to say what is wrong with it.

Time is NOT a conceptual grid-work overlaid onto nature, it is an integral PART of nature, hence "space-time". Where are you getting this nonsense from?

The comment about meditative experience is a bit rich coming from a fake Zennist like yourself.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

That something and nothing are inextricably tied one to the other.

"There are objects surrounded by space" would be more accurate.

 

[idav]

You are still talking of human based perception...maya.......

Silly me I must have forgotten to put my god hat on....

the relative perceptions and conceptual opinions of humans does not effect the eternal now....

So your a figment of my imagination? If your a holographic projection can you be trusted? *checks for a fever*

 

[Rick O'Shez]

So your a figment of my imagination? If your a holographic projection can you be trusted? *checks for a fever*

We're all in the Matrix!

 

[godnotgod]

"There are objects surrounded by space" would be more accurate.

My point is that something and nothing; solid and space; are inseparable relative values.

 

[godnotgod]

The comment about meditative experience is a bit rich coming from a fake Zennist like yourself.

Yes, even a fake Zennist would have noticed what is now obvious.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Yes, even a fake Zennist would have noticed what is now obvious.

You're a waste of space. You get Zen off the side of a corn-flake packet, and the rest of your new-age nonsense from that fraud Chopra.

 

[godnotgod]

Time is NOT a conceptual grid-work overlaid onto nature, it is an integral PART of nature, hence "space-time". Where are you getting this nonsense from?

Well, from here, for one:

In physics, spacetime is any mathematical model that combines space and time into a single interwoven continuum.

In cosmology, the concept of spacetime combines space and time to a single abstract universe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Again you're just dumping in links without referring to the relevant bits.


The physics link says this:
"Physics (from Ancient Greek: φυσική (ἐπιστήμη) phusikḗ (epistḗmē) "knowledge of nature", from φύσις phúsis "nature"[1][2][3]) is the natural science that involves the study of matter[4] and its motion through space and time, along with related concepts such as energy and force.[5] One of the most fundamental scientific disciplines, the main goal of physics is to understand how the universe behaves.[a][6][7][8]"

Can't see anything relevant in the cosmology link.

The last link says this:
"In physics, spacetime is any mathematical model that combines space and time into a single interwoven continuum. Since 300 BCE, the spacetime of our universe has historically been interpreted from a Euclidean space perspective, which regards space as consisting of three dimensions, and time as consisting of one dimension, the "fourth dimension". By combining space and time into a single manifold called Minkowski space in 1905, physicists have significantly simplified a large number of physical theories, as well as described in a more uniform way the workings of the universe at both the supergalactic and subatomic levels."


So where does it say that time is just a conceptual overlay, just something in our heads, and not an inherent feature of the universe?
Have you never heard of the arrow of time?

As I thought, this is just more pseudo-science on your part.

And as usual you dump in material which isn't really relevant to the discussion in hand, lazy and incoherent.

 

[godnotgod]

You're a waste of space. You get Zen off the side of a corn-flake packet, and the rest of your new-age nonsense from that fraud Chopra.

Even if that were true, it doesn't change the fact that your view of reality is a reflection of your shallow meditative 'experience'.

There is 'the simplicity of the present moment' but that is not the goal of the spiritual aspirant. Something must happen, and that something is a radical and powerful transformation of consciousness called 'Awakening'. There is nothing one can conjure up via Logic, Reason, or Analysis that can provide a clue to this kind of experience.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

There is 'the simplicity of the present moment' but that is not the goal of the spiritual aspirant. Something must happen, and that something is a radical and powerful transformation of consciousness called 'Awakening'. There is nothing one can conjure up via Logic, Reason, or Analysis that can provide a clue to this kind of experience.

Not in the least bit convincing, you are just mouthing words, regurgitating the same old pseudo-spiritual new-age cliches. It really is like something you read on the side of a cornflakes packet. There is nothing behind it.

 

[YmirGF]

Even if that were true, it doesn't change the fact that your view of reality is a reflection of your shallow meditative 'experience'.

There is 'the simplicity of the present moment' but that is not the goal of the spiritual aspirant. Something must happen, and that something is a radical and powerful transformation of consciousness called 'Awakening'. There is nothing one can conjure up via Logic, Reason, or Analysis that can provide a clue to this kind of experience.

Forgive me for butting in, gNg, but if the later bit is true why are you still rattling on and on? Apparently, you don't even believe what you are saying.

Oh, and it doesn't really help your cause to disparage the meditation experience of others. It puts you on a very slippery slope.

Not in the least bit convincing, you are just mouthing words, regurgitating the same old pseudo-spiritual new-age cliches. There is nothing behind it.

Binder Dundat... burned the T-shirt... If nothing else, gNg is impervious to any opinions outside of his minor group.

 

[idav]

There is nothing one can conjure up via Logic, Reason, or Analysis that can provide a clue to this kind of experience.

Why not? Mindfulness doesn't require anything supernatural or paranormal.