A Universe from Nothing?

[idav]

but only a very small part, as in 'tidbit'

So did you read the article so you have a better understanding of what it means when particle is called virtual? It affects what you said of the higgs boson also.

 

[godnotgod]

The claim of something from nothing is part of the thread which is how it was resurrected. One of godNotgods main premises is that virtual particles are not real to substantiate everything coming from nothing.

Hagelin's calling The Unified Field 'Pure Abstract Intelligence' is what I am calling 'No-thing-ness'.

 

[godnotgod]

So did you read the article so you have a better understanding of what it means when particle is called virtual? It affects what you said of the higgs boson also.

I'll take a look at it, but from what I see, there is a lot of controversy about this issue:

"There is no reason that we should accept that virtual particles are real. Quantum field theory never asserts that virtual particles are real. To put it simply, virtual particles are just factors that look mathematically like particles but don't behave quite like particles. But, the theory does not make the logical jump to state that VPs actually exist. These VPs are a mathematical way of quantifying the interaction between real particles."

http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/185110/do-virtual-particles-actually-physically-exist

 

[idav]

I'll take a look at it, but from what I see, there is a lot of controversy about this issue:

"There is no reason that we should accept that virtual particles are real. Quantum field theory never asserts that virtual particles are real. To put it simply, virtual particles are just factors that look mathematically like particles but don't behave quite like particles. But, the theory does not make the logical jump to state that VPs actually exist. These VPs are a mathematical way of quantifying the interaction between real particles."

http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/185110/do-virtual-particles-actually-physically-exist

There is no controversy, that rebuttal is unfounded mysticism. The article you need to catch up on explains perfectly how experiments do make the jump to explain their realness.

 

[YmirGF]

But it is not 'my' understanding:
"The Higgs field creates mass out of the quantum vacuum too, in the form of virtual Higgs bosons. So if the LHC confirms that the Higgs exists, [which it now has] it will mean all reality is virtual."
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16095-its-confirmed-matter-is-merely-vacuum-fluctuations/
You want to paint a picture of me as some wierdo on crack out there in la la land so you can set up a straw dog, don'cha? Not gonna happen. You can't attack The Indestructible Sunyata. There's Nothing there to attack.

An 8 year old article from a editorial consultant? Seriously? The beauty of all this, gNg, is that I don't have to frame you in any particular manner. Your own words paint a far better picture than I'd bother to attempt.

So, once again, you are, in fact, claiming to be enlightened. That's so spiffy.

Besides, if there's nothing there (to attack or embrace) how could you possibly know that it exists?

 

[idav]

So my primary point of departure is not science, but the mystical experience, which begins with unity already the case, while science begins via dissection and reductionism, which yields data and facts, but not what the nature of the Reality it is trying to investigate actually is. In fact, science really doesn't know what the nature of many of the things it claims knowledge about actually are. It doesn't need to know; all it needs to do is measure, weigh, document, and predict. That is all science actually is.

In fact science is providing tons of information about the true nature of reality which is why we keep resorting to QM and such. Its giving an explanation for all the weirdness in the world and getting rid of the illusion, showing us the trick behind the magic.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

So, once again, you are, in fact, claiming to be enlightened. That's so spiffy.

Delusions of grandeur.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

You can't attack The Indestructible Sunyata.

Oh, the irony. You know full well that sunyata is completely incompatible with all your absolutes, including "cosmic consciousness" and "absolute reality". Sunyata is emptiness, it means nothing has independent existence, all is relative and in flux.
Sunyata destroys your new-age versions of Atman and Brahman.

 

[godnotgod]

There is no controversy, that rebuttal is unfounded mysticism. The article you need to catch up on explains perfectly how experiments do make the jump to explain their realness.

Where do you get 'mysticism' out of the quote I posted? He is referring to a mathematical representation of particle behavior.

 

[godnotgod]

So, once again, you are, in fact, claiming to be enlightened. That's so spiffy.

Besides, if there's nothing there (to attack or embrace) how could you possibly know that it exists?

Where did I make such a claim?

Because I (and you, and everything else) am it, and it is no-thing, being no-thing, what is there to attack?

Fundamentally no wisdom-tree exists,
Nor the stand of a mirror bright.
Since all is empty from the beginning,
Where can the dust alight?

Hui Neng, Sixth Zen Patriarch

 

[godnotgod]

Oh, the irony. You know full well that sunyata is completely incompatible with all your absolutes, including "cosmic consciousness" and "absolute reality". Sunyata is emptiness, it means nothing has independent existence, all is relative and in flux.
Sunyata destroys your new-age versions of Atman and Brahman.

So there is no-thing that can be attacked. You don't exist (but in a good way).

Brahman is the ground of all being, the formless, and also has no self-nature, so therefore perfectly compatible with Sunyata, hand in glove. Both are empty of self nature.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Dunno about nothingness, but there is a verse in the Quran that says something similar to the Big Bang theory:
"Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We ripped them apart separating them, and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?" (Quran 21:30).

That's a literal translation to the Arabic text. Not sure if it implies anything between the lines.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Fundamentally no wisdom-tree exists,
Nor the stand of a mirror bright.
Since all is empty from the beginning,
Where can the dust alight?
Hui Neng, Sixth Zen Patriarch

Enjoying your cornflakes?

 

[godnotgod]

Enjoying your cornflakes?

There are no corn flakes to enjoy, nor anyone to enjoy them. That is because of Sunyata. There is no such 'corn flake nature'.

 

[YmirGF]

Because I (and you, and everything else) am it, and it is no-thing, being no-thing, what is there to attack?

That is really so contradictory. If we are it, then IT is a thing... regardless of its composition or lack thereof. Besides why do you feel attacked? If everything is no-thing then there can be no attacks.... Jus' sayin'....

There are no corn flakes to enjoy, nor anyone to enjoy them. That is because of Sunyata. There is no such 'corn flake nature'.

That certainly is the flakiest comment I have seen today....

 

[godnotgod]

Dunno about nothingness, but there is a verse in the Quran that says something similar to the Big Bang theory:
"Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?" (Quran 21:30).

That's a literal translation to the Arabic text. Not sure if it implies anything between the lines.

So what do you suppose it actually means, if anything? Does 'we' refer to Elohim?

 

[godnotgod]

That is really so contradictory. If we are it, then IT is a thing... regardless of its composition or lack thereof. Besides why do you feel attacked? If everything is no-thing then there can be no attacks.... Jus' sayin'....

I don't feel attacked, because there is no 'I' that exists to attack, but I see you are on the attack, but you can't attack me, because there is nothing to attack. I am the Indestructible Sunyata. Sunyata is not a thing, but is just the nature of things, which is that what you call 'things' are in reality, empty of any 'thing' self-nature. A rock is not a rock, as it possesses no inherent 'rock nature'.

 

[Smart_Guy]

So what do you suppose it actually means, if anything? Does 'we' refer to Elohim?

"We" is believed to refer to God, yes. Not really sure about it, but maybe that single entity was a part found of nothingness? It is also mentioned in the Quran that God could just give an order for a thing to be, and it becomes that thing:
His command is only when He intends a thing that He says to it, "Be," and it is. (Quran 36:82)
Indeed, Our word to a thing when We intend it is but that We say to it, "Be," and it is. (Quran 16:40)

Hmm, looks like in the Islamic views having something forming out of nothing is there. Again, that's what the direct translation says. Not sure if there is something hidden between the lines.

 

[godnotgod]

Electrons aren’t the only particles to consist of localized vibrations of a field; all particles do. There is a photon field, an up quark field, a gluon field, a muon field; indeed there is a field for every known particle. And, for all of them, the thing that we visualize as a particle is just a localized vibration of that field. Even the recently discovered Higgs boson is like this. The Higgs field interacts with particles and gives them their mass, but it is hard to observe this field directly. Instead, we supply energy to the field in particle collisions and cause it to vibrate. When we say “we’ve discovered the Higgs boson,” you should think “we’ve caused the Higgs field to vibrate and observed the vibrations.”

This idea gives an entirely different view of how the subatomic world works. Spanning all of space are a great variety of different fields that exist everywhere, just like how a certain spot can simultaneously have a smell, a sound, and a color. What we think of as a particle is simply a vibration of its associated field.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/blogs/physics/2013/08/the-good-vibrations-of-quantum-field-theories/

There are no material particles as such, therefore there is no material reality as such. Even the Higgs Boson, which is thought to be the cornerstone of The Standard Model, is actually just a vibration in a field. Everything in the Universe is interconnected and interdependent. What vibrates over here, vibrates over there.

Thank you very much. There is Nothing to be concerned about. Now go to your rooms.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

"indestructible Sunyata"

What a strange oxymoron.