A Universe from Nothing?

[Ben Dhyan]

I said it was a practice, ie,both religious and non religious, and provided a link (you claimed irrelevant) to validate my claim.

Hyou are the one claiming it is a religious practice at the expense of those non religious who do practice it

Go away urinating with your bs of my knowledge of religion, you have no clue to my history and experience with religion

You are now being dishonest, I have never said that non religious folk don't practice still mind meditation, I was specifically referring to my own religious practice of stilling the mind.

You said to me...."Your belief s yours alone, just don't pay the preacher." in your post #4247

I replied to you...."There is no belief involved in stilling the mind, it is a religious practice." in my post #4255
You can see I was talking about my own religious practice of stilling the mind in response to you say my position is based on belief.

You then replied...."No, it is a practice, religion is only involved if you personally wish it to use it as a vehicle to achieve a result." in your post #4259

 

[ChristineM]

You are now being dishonest, I have never said that non religious folk don't practice still mind meditation, I was specifically referring to my own religious practice of stilling the mind.

You said to me...."Your belief s yours alone, just don't pay the preacher." in your post #4247

I replied to you...."There is no belief involved in stilling the mind, it is a religious practice." in my post #4255
You can see I was talking about my own religious practice of stilling the mind in response to you say my position is based on belief.

You then replied...."No, it is a practice, religion is only involved if you personally wish it to use it as a vehicle to achieve a result." in your post #4259

Quote , it is a religious practice

I stated replied, see post #4295

So what is your problem? Methinks thou doth protest too much

 

[Mister Silver]

"A universe from nothing"
"A god from nothing"

I see no difference.

 

[ChristineM]

"A universe from nothing"
"A god from nothing"

I see no difference.

There actually is a difference, a universe from nothing is at least mathematically feasible
Is All the Universe From Nothing?

 

[Mister Silver]

There actually is a difference, a universe from nothing is at least mathematically feasible
Is All the Universe From Nothing?

Don't get me wrong, I understand the difference. What I stated was more for the religious minded, since they offer apologetic arguments in support of god having come from nothing while ignoring scientific facts in relation to the universe.

 

[YmirGF]

You are now being dishonest, I have never said that non religious folk don't practice still mind meditation, I was specifically referring to my own religious practice of stilling the mind.

You said to me...."Your belief s yours alone, just don't pay the preacher." in your post #4247

I replied to you...."There is no belief involved in stilling the mind, it is a religious practice." in my post #4255
You can see I was talking about my own religious practice of stilling the mind in response to you say my position is based on belief.

You then replied...."No, it is a practice, religion is only involved if you personally wish it to use it as a vehicle to achieve a result." in your post #4259

I'm not disagreeing with you @ben d but when I pop into that stillness, I don't use any religious motivation as a springboard. I just do it because I like to. So, to be truthful, getting there can be both a religious or a non-religious act even if done somewhat religiously, LOL . The state itself could care less about the motivations of the individual on why or how they get there.

I will say, however, that religious training will necessarily colour the experience in the post experience phase. Any existing belief system, religious or otherwise will warp the conscious assimilation of the state once one returns to ordinary consciousness.

 

[ChristineM]

Don't get me wrong, I understand the difference. What I stated was more for the religious minded, since they offer apologetic arguments in support of god having come from nothing while ignoring scientific facts in relation to the universe.

I agree entirety, you would think a universe from nothing was the scariest, most evil concept ever considered while a god from nothing creating a universe from nothing and earth from nothing (Genesis 1:2) is a perfectly logical explanation to the hard of thinking.

My link is some fairly new material that can be used to contest the creationist stance. They still deny, claiming the law of causality bar such a concept (excerpt when god dun it), not realising that at that time the law of causality did not exist, rather like eating your sandwich before you made it.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Quote , it is a religious practice

I stated replied, see post #4295

So what is your problem? Methinks thou doth protest too much

Haha....so one is to ignore the "No, it is a practice", in answer to my reference to my religious practice. .

So let me ask you, why did you say "No, it is a practice,...", knowing we were talking specifically about my claim wrt my religious practice?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

There actually is a difference, a universe from nothing is at least mathematically feasible
Is All the Universe From Nothing?

Christine, the 'Nothing' referred to in the paper is not an absolute nothing, ie. total absence of matter and energy, it refers to a false Vacuum, which exists at a local minimum of energy and is therefore not truly stable.

[1404.1207] Spontaneous creation of the universe from nothing
https://arxiv.org/abs/1404.1207

 

[Mister Silver]

Right over his head.

 

[gnostic]

When you fall into a mountain lake, how do you know that the water is cold?

If the fall breaks my neck or back, it won't matter at all the water is cold, if I dead. I am more likely to drown if I broken my back.

But assuming that I don't die, then I would know the water is cold.

You can always go see for yourself, just as the sceptical prisoners in Plato's Cave can. But if you insist on bringing your baggage, best not go at all.

Ultimately, there is no demand, urgency, or necessity that you take the time to go look. It is like a refreshing mountain spring; you can stop to partake of its waters, or just move on. It makes no difference to the bubbling brook. It's OK either way.

Sure, that's all possible. I could go to the lake and test the water.

But I don't see how what I do in my awakened and conscious state, go to the lake and try the water, would have anything to do with someone who preferred to sit in trance, meditating, going nowhere near the lake.

How does meditating, make it more real?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I'm not disagreeing with you @ben d but when I pop into that stillness, I don't use any religious motivation as a springboard. I just do it because I like to. So, to be truthful, getting there can be both a religious or a non-religious act even if done somewhat religiously, LOL . The state itself could care less about the motivations of the individual on why or how they get there.

I will say, however, that religious training will necessarily colour the experience in the post experience phase. Any existing belief system, religious or otherwise will warp the conscious assimilation of the state once one returns to ordinary consciousness.

Yes, but I was not talking about others, just my own still mind meditation practice.

Though it is true YmirGF that I too mostly no longer think of anything when slipping into the still mind state except perhaps initially briefly the intent to cease thinking. However sometimes on a good 'trip', the awesome transcendent state is so unbearably glorious, it is literally divine.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Right over his head.

Cryptic statements are not the way for improving understanding, be technically clear and explain what you mean.

 

[godnotgod]

If the fall breaks my neck or back, it won't matter at all the water is cold, if I dead. I am more likely to drown if I broken my back.

But assuming that I don't die, then I would know the water is cold.


Sure, that's all possible. I could go to the lake and test the water.

But I don't see how what I do in my awakened and conscious state, go to the lake and try the water, would have anything to do with someone who preferred to sit in trance, meditating, going nowhere near the lake.

How does meditating, make it more real?

Please, gnostic, try to understand: partaking of the cool mountain spring is a METAPHOR for the experience of true Reality, as opposed to the conditioned reality you now experience, but do not realize that it is conditioned. Meditation is exactly the experience of partaking of the cool mountain spring; that is to say, of true Reality. Tell me if you understand what I am saying to you before we go on.

Yes, you would know the water is cold, wouldn't you, without forming a single thought about how you know it is cold. So can you tell me by what means you know the water to be cold?

 

[godnotgod]

Yes, but I was not talking about others, just my own still mind meditation practice.

Though it is true YmirGF that I too mostly no longer think of anything when slipping into the still mind state except perhaps initially briefly the intent to cease thinking. However sometimes on a good 'trip', the awesome transcendent state is so unbearably glorious, it is literally divine.

I would like to know something, ben:

In the transcendent state, do you experience sat-chit-ananda without thoughts of zero point energy, vacuums, quarks, and the like? And if you do experience them, do you now see them as transformed reality?

 

[godnotgod]

"A universe from nothing"
"A god from nothing"

I see no difference.

And I see no conflict between a scientific-view of 'a universe from nothing', and a Universe that is itself none other than The Absolute.

Do you really mean 'a god from nothing', or perhaps that God is Absolute Nothingness, and out of that Absolute No-Thing-ness, comes Every-thing?

(I see ben protesting in the background, LOL)

"The Universe is [none other than] The Absolute, as seen through the glass of Time, Space, and Causation"
Vivekenada

 

[godnotgod]

I agree entirety, you would think a universe from nothing was the scariest, most evil concept ever considered while a god from nothing creating a universe from nothing and earth from nothing (Genesis 1:2) is a perfectly logical explanation to the hard of thinking.

My link is some fairly new material that can be used to contest the creationist stance. They still deny, claiming the law of causality bar such a concept (excerpt when god dun it), not realising that at that time the law of causality did not exist, rather like eating your sandwich before you made it.

If the sandwich is an illusion, then there is no causality.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I would like to know something, ben:

In the transcendent state, do you experience sat-chit-ananda without thoughts of zero point energy, vacuums, quarks, and the like? And if you do experience them, do you now see them as transformed reality?

The still mind state has changed over time, sometimes blissful, sometimes dreamlike beautiful imagery appears, sometimes different again, words could never do justice to the reality present, but yes, it does include insights concerning the zpe, electrons, plasma, etc.. Kundalini energy in the head area tends to be flowing out and merging with the zpe ocean. It is as though the kundalini energy is at a much higher 'pressure' and can be quite uncomfortable as it seems to force its way to any lower 'pressure' available. Transformation is indeed taking place, but I try not to speculate much these days, its a ride that is ever changing and unpredictable in the short term...long term aummmm.

 

[godnotgod]

The still mind state has changed over time, sometimes blissful, sometimes dreamlike beautiful imagery appears, sometimes different again, words could never do justice to the reality present, but yes, it does include insights concerning the zpe, electrons, plasma, etc.. Kundalini energy in the head area tends to be flowing out and merging with the zpe ocean. It is as though the kundalini energy is at a much higher 'pressure' and can be quite uncomfortable as it seems to force its way to any lower 'pressure' available. Transformation is indeed taking place, but I try not to speculate much these days, its a ride that is ever changing and unpredictable in the short term...long term aummmm.

Did you actually experience a completed kundalini awakening starting at the base of the spinal chord with the light traveling up the spinal chord and illuminating the cranium?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Did you actually experience a completed kundalini awakening starting at the base of the spinal chord with the light traveling up the spinal chord and illuminating the cranium?

Yes, it is now in the cranium. It began in the 1980s!