A Universe from Nothing?

[ChristineM]

Haha....so one is to ignore the "No, it is a practice", in answer to my reference to my religious practice. .

So let me ask you, why did you say "No, it is a practice,...", knowing we were talking specifically about my claim wrt my religious practice?

Don't be stupid you petty minded fool. You know what you wrote, you know what i wrote.

If you don't have the nuts to admit you are wrong then thats just tough for you

 

[ChristineM]

Christine, the 'Nothing' referred to in the paper is not an absolute nothing, ie. total absence of matter and energy, it refers to a false Vacuum, which exists at a local minimum of energy and is therefore not truly stable.

[1404.1207] Spontaneous creation of the universe from nothing

Precisely, well spotted, i didn't think you had it in you. This is what i have been saying for several months, amazing how quickly you cottoned on.

So how did the false vacuum bumble form?

 

[ChristineM]

If the sandwich is an illusion, then there is no causality.

But if it were an illusion then it would not be a sandwich would it?

 

[godnotgod]

But if it were an illusion then it would not be a sandwich would it?

No, but you would think that it were, and you would think it to have been caused, and until you pierce the facade, you would not realize that it's true nature is no-sandwich.

This is in accord with Quantum Sandwich Physics, which says that there is no such thing as 'sandwich'; there is only a superposition of possibilities, of which 'sandwich' is one of them.

Classical materialist physics will continue to tell you that there really is something called 'sandwich' that was the product of causation.

 

[ChristineM]

No, but you would think that it were, and you would think it to have been caused, and until you pierce the facade, you would not realize that it's true nature is no-sandwich.

This is in accord with Quantum Sandwich Physics, which says that there is no such thing as 'sandwich'; there is only a superposition of possibilities, of which 'sandwich' is one of them.

Classical materialist physics will continue to tell you that there really is something called 'sandwich' that was the product of causation.

Perhaps you would, i am a realist and know what i had for lunch.

Please provide citation for your claim of quantum sandwich physics, can't say I've ever heard of that field.

 

[godnotgod]

Perhaps you would, i am a realist and know what i had for lunch.

Please provide citation for your claim of quantum sandwich physics, can't say I've ever heard of that field.

When you are in a dream, you do not know you are dreaming. You may have dream-thirst and dream-hunger, perhaps satisfying both with a dream-sandwich and dream-soda. But while on that level of reality, you think you are a realist and really, really, really know for sure that you had a sandwich for lunch, when you were only dreaming. When you awaken to the next level of reality, you realize that what you only thought to be reality was just a dream. Is it possible that even the next level of reality is also a dream, but of a much higher caliber which does not vanish upon awakening?

Here's one reference amongst many:

superposition

Superposition is a principle of quantum theory that describes a challenging concept about the nature and behavior of matter and forces at the sub-atomic level. The principle of superposition claims that while we do not know what the state of any object is, it is actually in all possible states simultaneously, as long as we don't look to check. It is the measurement itself that causes the object to be limited to a single possibility.

What is superposition? - Definition from WhatIs.com

and.....

 

[ChristineM]

When you are in a dream, you do not know you are dreaming. You may have dream-thirst and dream-hunger, perhaps satisfying both with a dream-sandwich and dream-soda. But while on that level of reality, you think you are a realist and really, really, really know for sure that you had a sandwich for lunch, when you were only dreaming. When you awaken to the next level of reality, you realize that what you only thought to be reality was just a dream. Is it possible that even the next level of reality is also a dream, but of a much higher caliber which does not vanish upon awakening?

Here's one reference amongst many:

superposition

Superposition is a principle of quantum theory that describes a challenging concept about the nature and behavior of matter and forces at the sub-atomic level. The principle of superposition claims that while we do not know what the state of any object is, it is actually in all possible states simultaneously, as long as we don't look to check. It is the measurement itself that causes the object to be limited to a single possibility.

What is superposition? - Definition from WhatIs.com

and.....

Not interested in your dreams nor your make believe. What has any of this to do with a quantum sandwich?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Don't be stupid you petty minded fool. You know what you wrote, you know what i wrote.

If you don't have the nuts to admit you are wrong then thats just tough for you

That's the thing, I do know what you wrote, and i know how unhappy you are to be shown your error, but that is no excuse to lose your mind in a shameful personal attack.

 

[ChristineM]

That's the thing, I do know what you wrote, and i know how unhappy you are to be shown your error, but that is no excuse to lose your mind in a shameful personal attack.

There you go again with the bull. Trying to impose your failure on to me. I am not unhappy with my posts, they are accurate and where required provided citations. Unlike you who provided opinion and incredulity.

My comment in #4645 reflects my frustration at your inability to accept that you told an untruth and are not man enough to admit it. Given the evidence available I would not stand such immature behaviour from my children, why should i accept it from you who, by the rules of this forum should be adult enough to take responsibility for you ownb actions

Personal attack? Look in the mirror.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Precisely, well spotted, i didn't think you had it in you. This is what i have been saying for several months, amazing how quickly you cottoned on.

So how did the false vacuum bumble form?

According to this theory, the quantum fields of a vacuum are always present, therefore they had no beginning, they are eternal. There is no such thing as absolute nothing, only a relative!

Btw, it is false that bumble bees could form in a vacuum..

 

[ChristineM]

According to this theory, the quantum fields of a vacuum are always present, therefore they had no beginning, they are eternal. There is no such thing as absolute nothing, only a relative!

Btw, it is false that bumble bees could form in a vacuum..

Define always present before the universe existed, as required by your eternal claim

What, it is also false that transcendence is a solely religious practice and that pigs can fly... Your point is?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

There you go again with the bull. Trying to impose your failure on to me. I am not unhappy with my posts, they are accurate and where required provided citations. Unlike you who provided opinion and incredulity.

My comment in #4645 reflects my frustration at your inability to accept that you told an untruth and are not man enough to admit it. Given the evidence available I would not stand such immature behaviour from my children, why should i accept it from you who, by the rules of this forum should be adult enough to take responsibility for you ownb actions

Personal attack? Look in the mirror.

I think the problem is your dyslexia, the pertinent posts that I keep posting to show you where you made an error do not result in your understanding what I see.

Regardless of your frustration for whatever reason, it is extremely immature for you to spew bile so at another on a public forum.

 

[ChristineM]

I think the problem is your dyslexia, the pertinent posts that I keep posting to show you where you made an error do not result in your understanding what I see.

Regardless of your frustration for whatever reason, it is extremely immature for you to spew bile so at another on a public forum.

No, the problem is you messed up then misrepresented your claim, lied about what id written and don't have the courage to admit your mistake.

You then then blaming your faults on another persons disability which tells the caliber of person you are.

And no bile involved, just truth based on your posts.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Define always present before the universe existed, as required by your eternal claim

What, it is also false that transcendence is a solely religious practice and that pigs can fly... Your point is?

According to the theory, the false vacuum energy was present, it is the starting point of the theory. They do not address the question of where it came from as it is a given.

That you meant a bubble and not a bumble...

 

[Ben Dhyan]

No, the problem is you messed up then misrepresented your claim, lied about what id written and don't have the courage to admit your mistake.

You then then blaming your faults on another persons disability which tells the caliber of person you are.

And no bile involved, just truth based on your posts.

Ok, let us proceed methodically as mature adults to see where the misunderstanding (or lie if that what it is) lies. We will examine the pertinent comments sequentially until we come to the one where we disagree as to what it means.

Let us start the sequence with your post #4247 ChristineM, Jul 28, 2017 "Your belief s yours alone, just don't pay the preacher."

1. Do you agree with my understanding that you are referring specifically to my beliefs?

I replied with my post #4255 ben d, Jul 28, 2017 "There is no belief involved in stilling the mind, it is a religious practice."

2. Do you agree with my understanding that I am talking about my still mind meditation practice being a religious practice?

You replied with your post #4259 ChristineM, Jul 28, 2017 "No, it is a practice, religion is only involved if you personally wish it to use it as a vehicle to achieve a result."

3. Do you agree with my understanding that you are denying my still mind meditation is a religious, merely a non religious practice?

If you do not agree with my understanding of context and meaning of the three posts, please explain your understanding? If you do agree on all three, then we will then move on further in our quest to find where the misunderstanding lies.

 

[gnostic]

I think the problem is your dyslexia, the pertinent posts that I keep posting to show you where you made an error do not result in your understanding what I see.

Regardless of your frustration for whatever reason, it is extremely immature for you to spew bile so at another on a public forum.

No, the problem is you messed up then misrepresented your claim, lied about what id written and don't have the courage to admit your mistake.

You then then blaming your faults on another persons disability which tells the caliber of person you are.

And no bile involved, just truth based on your posts.

Ben does that all the time with me.

I know that my grammar and my English are not the best, and most likely below average, but for him to bring it up whenever he backed into corner, just show how petty and low he is, trying to redirect the topic from the debate to my English.

I'd call that whenever he used this, merely a distraction or evasive tactics.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Ben does that all the time with me.

I know that my grammar and my English are not the best, and most likely below average, but for him to bring it up whenever he backed into corner, just show how petty and low he is, trying to redirect the topic from the debate to my English.

I'd call that whenever he used this, merely a distraction or evasive tactics.

How could I be redirecting the topic when if you read my post above, I am trying to find out where the misunderstanding is?

 

[gnostic]

Ok, let us proceed methodically as mature adults to see where the misunderstanding (or lie if that what it is) lies. We will examine the pertinent comments sequentially until we come to the one where we disagree as to what it means.

Let us start the sequence with your post #4247 ChristineM, Jul 28, 2017 "Your belief s yours alone, just don't pay the preacher."

1. Do you agree with my understanding that you are referring specifically to my beliefs?

I replied with my post #4255 ben d, Jul 28, 2017 "There is no belief involved in stilling the mind, it is a religious practice."

2. Do you agree with my understanding that I am talking about my still mind meditation practice being a religious practice?

You replied with your post #4259 ChristineM, Jul 28, 2017 "No, it is a practice, religion is only involved if you personally wish it to use it as a vehicle to achieve a result."

3. Do you agree with my understanding that you are denying my still mind meditation is a religious, merely a non religious practice?

If you do not agree with my understanding of context and meaning of the three posts, please explain your understanding? If you do agree on all three, then we will then move on further in our quest to find where the misunderstanding lies.

If you are using meditation as religious practice, then it is part of your religious belief, especially if you think your consciousness have reach transcendent state.

It is only not a religious belief, if you practice meditation with intention of focusing, clearing the mind or for health benefits.

But you can use meditation for both health purpose and for religious belief, at the same time, but if you continued to use it as "religious" practice, then the purpose is for religion.

One of the major components of religion is belief (and faith), and you wouldn't be doing meditation as religious practice unless it for religious belief.

 

[gnostic]

How could I be redirecting the topic when if you read my post above, I am trying to find out where the misunderstanding is?

You are trying to distract Christine by using the "dyslexia" card.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You are trying to distract Christine by using the "dyslexia" card.

Not at all, she has told me of having a problem with dyslexia and I am at a complete loss as to why she can't understand, so I raise it as a possibility she is misreading the meaning somehow. You are projecting gnostic, grow up!