A Universe from Nothing?

[Thief]

Of course the universe doesn't need adjusting. That's not the same as trying to track time as it slows down and objects age more slowly. The universe is causing that in reality not just in a math formula.

so you DO understand......time is only a quotient

 

[Thief]

Genesis=Origin

 

[godnotgod]

The Hindu also believe in the ridiculous myth of Meru or Mount Sumeru, so why would I think that Hinduism have more credibility with cyclical model?

And the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation (CMBR) is the observable of the earliest light of the early universe, which give no indication to the universe being "cyclical".

As to what Penrose have stated, it is still theoretical and speculative, and nothing he had stated stated about an even earlier universe is verifiable or testable.

You must understand that theoretical astrophysics, only present one of many possibilities, they don't necessarily indicate what theoretical astrophysicists say are true in reality, whether it comes from Penrose or Hawking.

They (theoretical astrophysics and cosmology) are never true, until they can verify them.

You're glossing over and leaving out key information here.

Penrose has real EVIDENCE in the LEFTOVER BACKGROUND microwave radiation (note the word 'leftover') gleaned from 7 years of data from WMAP to support his theory. This is not just speculation. In addition, he points out problems with the current inflationary model:

from the article I posted:

Circular patterns within the cosmic microwave background suggest that space and time did not come into being at the Big Bang but that our universe in fact continually cycles through a series of "aeons". That is the sensational claim being made by University of Oxford theoretical physicist Roger Penrose, who says that data collected by NASA's WMAP satellite support his idea of "conformal cyclic cosmology". This claim is bound to prove controversial, however, because it opposes the widely accepted inflationary model of cosmology.

Penrose now claims to have found evidence for this theory in the cosmic microwave background, the all-pervasive microwave radiation that was believed to have been created when the universe was just 300,000 years old and which tells us what conditions were like at that time. The evidence was obtained by Vahe Gurzadyan of the Yerevan Physics Institute in Armenia, who analysed seven years' worth of microwave data from WMAP, as well as data from the BOOMERanG balloon experiment in Antarctica. Penrose and Gurzadyan say they have clearly identified concentric circles within the data – regions in the microwave sky in which the range of the radiation's temperature is markedly smaller than elsewhere.

Seeing through the Big Bang
According to Penrose and Gurzadyan, these circles allow us to "see through" the Big Bang into the aeon that would have existed beforehand. The circles, they say, are the marks left in our aeon by the spherical ripples of gravitational waves that were generated when black holes collided in the previous aeon. And they say that these circles pose a problem for inflationary theory because this theory says that the distribution of temperature variations across the sky should be Gaussian, or random, rather than having discernable structures within it.

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article...ims-to-have-glimpsed-universe-before-big-bang

I never claimed nor implied that Penrose won a Nobel Prize for his cyclical model. You should think before you post.

Judging from your two posts about this, I don't think you have a good grasp on what Penrose is actually proposing, and your take on it is erroneous.

 

[godnotgod]

Quite the contrary, Master. As usual you missed the mark because you just can't help yourself. There was no sense of "Yuk or pity or belittlement". It was a profound awe that practically made me fall over. It was seeing the universe and appreciating, first hand, just how gigantic, how gargantuan, it truly is for a few fleeting moments. There was utter clarity in this crystal clear experience. Yes, I felt tiny, but hardly insignificant. It was amazing to have the capacity to see it in a way I'd never seen before.

Trust you to denigrate something you have never experienced and so haven't the slightest idea. One would think that someone who was so incredibly aware would be slightly more perceptive.

oooooh! me so little; universe sooooooooooo BIG!

 

[godnotgod]

I still wonder why people expect to ever have any idea of whether there was an origin to existence, myself.

Maybe this is what happens when we become disconnected from Reality. The Universe is then seen as an object, even a strange object, rather than as ourselves.

 

[LuisDantas]

Maybe this is what happens when we become disconnected from Reality. The Universe is then seen as an object, even a strange object, rather than as ourselves.

That may very well be.

 

[godnotgod]

That may very well be.

The Buddha himself discouraged questions about the origins, and tried to get people to focus on their suffering and the cause of their suffering. In a similar manner, so did Yeshua. I personally think that in doing so, the rest of the story will fall into place of its own accord.

The classic Buddhist parable illustrating this was about the man fatally shot with an arrow. When a doctor, passing by, offerred to remove the arrow to save the man's life, the victim protested, wanting to know all of the details associated with the arrow before it was pulled out. By that time, the man would be dead.

 

[LuisDantas]

Indeed.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The Buddha himself discouraged questions about the origins, and tried to get people to focus on their suffering and the cause of their suffering.

Advice that YOU have clearly ignored.

 

[VioletVortex]

Whenever I doubt my faith in Satan, I think "How can a universe just appear from nothingness?". The fact is, it can't. Without Satan (or whoever), existence would not be possible. I know there Is the big bang theory but without space or time (alleged products of that theory), stray energy could not exist to hit a proton which also could not exist. That's the paradox in the "scientific theory" that immediately proves it wrong.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

And here I though the big bang theory was Satan's idea to befuddle the profane.....

 

[godnotgod]

Advice that YOU have clearly ignored.

I've already squared with the question of suffering.

You can go to your room, now, and remain there until instructed to leave. We'll leave the light on for you.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

You can go to your room, now, and remain there until instructed to leave.

At least I have a room and don't live down a rabbit hole. I think I shall start calling you Alice.

 

[godnotgod]

Whenever I doubt my faith in Satan, I think "How can a universe just appear from nothingness?". The fact is, it can't. Without Satan (or whoever), existence would not be possible. I know there Is the big bang theory but without space or time (alleged products of that theory), stray energy could not exist to hit a proton which also could not exist. That's the paradox in the "scientific theory" that immediately proves it wrong.

Yes, but how did Satan just appear from nothingness?

But you're right about Satan. It is said that, should you come face to face with him, do not fear; only compliment him on the quality of his illusion.

 

[godnotgod]

At least I have a room and don't live down a rabbit hole.

...and don't forget to lock the door and throw away the key! We'll send corned beef and cabbage and Dublin Ale.

 

[godnotgod]

Indeed.

But you can't blame man for it, I guess. Children are just inquisitive by nature. It's how we handle their questions that is important. A child asked Thich Nhat Hanh once: 'Grampa monk, what is the color of that tree?' to which he replied: 'Why, it's the color that it is!'

 

[Rick O'Shez]

We'll send corned beef and cabbage and Dublin Ale.

Lovely!

Hope you enjoy your tea-party, Alice.

 

[idav]

so you DO understand......time is only a quotient

So your talking about the ruler metric stick version of time and refuse to talk about the time that Eisenstein version sees as time as part of a force of nature. Can you talk beyond Newton physics. As I said before seeing time as a force makes eternity more plausible, or do you believe magic has to happen when we pass?

 

[YmirGF]

oooooh! me so little; universe sooooooooooo BIG!

Pathetic and juvenile. Nice combo.

Maybe this is what happens when we become disconnected from Reality. The Universe is then seen as an object, even a strange object, rather than as ourselves.

That would be a variation of anthropomorphic projection. We are not The Universe. We are tiny individualized autonomous parts of the universe.

 

[YmirGF]

Whenever I doubt my faith in Satan, I think "How can a universe just appear from nothingness?". The fact is, it can't. Without Satan (or whoever), existence would not be possible. I know there Is the big bang theory but without space or time (alleged products of that theory), stray energy could not exist to hit a proton which also could not exist. That's the paradox in the "scientific theory" that immediately proves it wrong.

Oh, good grief. Why not just suck it up and scream, "Allah did it!"