A Universe from Nothing?

[leibowde84]

Exactly, just as if we were able to listen to everything instantly- could we detect anything sent in the past or future? no- only what was being sent right now!
Again it's precisely the same either way , it's a total wash isn't it? for every time/place we'd miss in one scenario- we'd gain one in the other

and either way- the galaxy is billions of years old- yet only a 100kly or so across... so that time slice represents very recent history either way.




The observation of the great silence is not proof, it merely supports the mathematical improbability of ET

The universe all came from the same place, a wide range of possible environments can be found right here in our solar system. Even right here on Earth, in places where conditions are not quite right, even surrounded with teaming complex life- none has even adapted, far less originated and thrived in our own inhospitable environs. FAR less intelligent beings

Consider that we are the only one in MILLIONS of species to achieve this. and only through extremely improbable circumstances. i.e. we could find a million planets identical to Earth, and expect to find dinosaurs, if anything more likely than humans- and that is generously granting you abiogenesis on all of them as 100% given

The universe just isn't all that big to cover the odds against ET

And once again, colonization is a logical step, certainly Hawking's sees it as our destiny- at least it's conceivable after a mere century of powered flight- yet not one single other civilization ever achieved likewise?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Except when it comes to God right? for atheists I mean, though I'm not sure what you definition of God is anyway?

must run for now but would be interested.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I don't think it was luck!

Ah so....I see where you're coming from...not that it matters to me if you do not listen....but have you ever considered Genesis 1 to be exclusively the creation story of this solar system generally and Earth in particular....not a creation story of the universe at large? In which case it is an Earth-centric narrative and does not pertain to the creation of the infinite other star systems and their planets...

 

[leibowde84]

Except when it comes to God right? for atheists I mean, though I'm not sure what you definition of God is anyway?

must run for now but would be interested.

Nope. The same applies to God.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Ah so....I see where you're coming from...not that it matters to me if you do not listen....but have you ever considered Genesis 1 to be exclusively the creation story of this solar system generally and Earth in particular....not a creation story of the universe at large? In which case it is an Earth-centric narrative and does not pertain to the creation of the infinite other star systems and their planets...

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth"

Genesis also compares the number of stars in the heavens to the grains of sand on Earth.

..Which some used to consider a wild exaggeration until we learned that they are remarkably close.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth"

Genesis also compares the number of stars in the heavens to the grains of sand on Earth.

..Which some used to consider a wild exaggeration until we learned that they are remarkably close.

Yeh....that's right...this star system came into existence along with the other stars of the Milky Way Galaxy.....but the Genesis story then focuses on Earth and is relevant for those evolving on Earth...it becomes a Earth centered narrative... No doubt there would be similar creations stories on all the other planets of stars that host sentient beings... This planet is unique, as each soul is unique...but being unique does not mean that planets and their hosted life forms aren't ubiquitous throughout the universe in time and space....

 

[Thief]

Movement takes time in order to occur. If time didn't exist, then movement would be impossible. Everything would be frozen in place.

nay.
the movement will happen, whether we measure it or not.

 

[Thief]

Yes, and that is basically why the Universe does not move, nor change in any meaningful way. Like B. Greene would say, it is like a frozen river.

Ciao

- viole

???????

I heard recently the stars and galaxies are moving away from each other....and gaining speed!

 

[Parsimony]

nay.
the movement will happen, whether we measure it or not.

You've yet to explain how movement can happen when there is no time for any movement to occur. How far can you throw a baseball in zero seconds?

 

[Thief]

You've yet to explain how movement can happen when there is no time for any movement to occur. How far can you throw a baseball in zero seconds?

you're pasting measure on reality.
measure is all in your head

 

[Parsimony]

you're pasting measure on reality.
measure is all in your head

You could argue the same for space. I still don't see an explanation here. How do things move without any time for things to do moving through?

 

[Thief]

You could argue the same for space. I still don't see an explanation here. How do things move without any time for things to do moving through?

nay....I say, space is real enough....all that emptiness in between the particles.....

time is nothing but a means of measure.

 

[Parsimony]

nay....I say, space is real enough....all that emptiness in between the particles.....

time is nothing but a means of measure.

Are you, at any point, actually going to provide evidence backing your claims or are you just going to keep repeating your claims? I really need to know that before I decide whether to continue this or not.

 

[`mud]

Ahhh... but that we could find the point where it all started !
All directions away from the point of the initial inertial beginning !
Ahh... the B B again..............
There was never any inertial beginning,
all momentum is in rebound from some source,
from another cause and then some.
Strange....how the expanses are shortening,
we same to be accelerating in many apposing directions !
Forget about the B B !
~
'mud

 

[1137]

I'm not sure if I can post a poll on here but who here believes that the universe originated from nothing? As some of the major scientific theories from the 20th century claimed or was there an originator of some sort? Doesn't have to be God necessarily in your opinion. Who believes the universe has no beginning? I'm just curious as to what you guys believe with regard to this topic and what the basis of your belief would be?

I believe that the singularity of matter and the consciousness of chaos must both always exist in some form due simply to logic. I'm not sure this means that there was no beginning, as there was really no concept of "duration" before the big bang / cosmogenesis.

 

[`mud]

A dumb thought.....
There is no '0', or (zero), in 'time', is there ?
Somewhere in that 'duration' mentioned.
~
I already said !dumb!
~
'mud

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I'm not sure this means that there was no beginning, as there was really no concept of "duration" before the big bang / cosmogenesis.

Indeed. It would seem that space and time and therefore cause and effect are products of the big bang, so it's far from clear whether these have any meaning "prior" to the big bang. This makes the first cause argument for God weak to the point of being irrelevant. So there.

 

[1137]

Indeed. It would seem that space and time and therefore cause and effect are products of the big bang, so it's far from clear whether these have any meaning "prior" to the big bang. This makes the first cause argument for God weak to the point of being irrelevant. So there.

Not really. Matter was either made from nothing or set in motion by something else. Further, if we accept polarity, matter being unthinking makes this other force conscious.

 

[Valjean]

I don't get the controversy.
Both sides agree on a universe created from nothing, but one posits an unknown mechanism, whilst the other an invisible "creator."
The controversy is about mechanism vs magic, not the fact of creation ex nihilo.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Matter was either made from nothing or set in motion by something else.

But it's pure speculation as to whether things being "being set in motion" has any meaning "prior" to the big bang. Cause and effect and setting in motion are features of space-time, which it appears didn't exist prior to the big bang.