Actually, most are rushing away from each other. As in an explosion. This is seen in examining "redshift". Which indicates the universe had a definite starting point.
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A Universe from Nothing?
- Thread starter Tomorrows_Child
- Start date
Actually, most are rushing away from each other. As in an explosion. This is seen in examining "redshift". Which indicates the universe had a definite starting point.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
LOL. Ever heard of the logical falacy of an "argument from ignorance"? Because that is exactly what this is. My failure to disprove your claim in no way supports that your claim is true. It is a falacious argument without merit. Nice try though.Let me see how this works..... So can you provide any evidence in the public domain that can disprove the existence of ET? ... I mean I feel like I'm dealing with a 'flat earther' here..
Am I correct in assuming that you can't provide any evidence to back of this "knowledge" you claim?
leibowde84
Veteran Member
http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/54-argument-from-ignoranceLet me see how this works..... So can you provide any evidence in the public domain that can disprove the existence of ET? ... I mean I feel like I'm dealing with a 'flat earther' here..
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Seriously....you do not know there is not ET, and you do not know there is....either way you know nothing...is that not total ignorance? I have had contact though with ET...but I can not at this point provide proof to someone who imagines all beings are like him... made out of meat...http://www.terrybisson.com/page6/page6.html
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Thank you, so you agree that the lack of evidence for the existence of ET does not mean you conclude it is evidence of absence....
Thief
Rogue Theologian
clocks measure movement.
the movement is real
the unit of measure is cognitive
it's all in your head
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
And His celestial hierarchy of Angels, Archangels, etc.....are ETs.....
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
They won't be rushing away for long. And by long I am, of course, speaking in relative terms. At any rate, as I have stated to others before - the equations that describe gravitational pull between two masses don't allow for a zero return. Everything will be coming back together again. It doesn't matter how long it takes.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Yes I agree, everything has life and death, even the cosmos.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Yes, I never claimed that there was evidence that ETs don't exist. I never even made the claim that I don't believe they exist.
Movement takes time in order to occur. If time didn't exist, then movement would be impossible. Everything would be frozen in place.
Yes, and that is basically why the Universe does not move, nor change in any meaningful way. Like B. Greene would say, it is like a frozen river.
Ciao
- viole
Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
So given your lottery analogy, you admit that potentiality still leads to the realization......do the math...given the statistical number of planets in the universe....at lottery odds that is still billions of life bearing planets...haha...
I wonder what the odds were of Columbus finding life outside of the 'flat earth' reality mindsets of that era....and like yours' is in this era? .....
The mindset during the days of Verne and Poe- was to speculate on what sort of folks lived on the moon- because we took for granted finding some kind of life everywhere we looked, and had little understanding of just how narrow the parameters are that make life possible on Earth.
Now we would be delighted to merely find a fossilized microbe on Mars right? i.e. the trend of science in this area is to increasingly realize how 'lucky' Earth is.
There are 7 billion people in the world, yet you only have to take a small list of mundane idiosyncrasies about yourself, before you are defined as utterly unique. Because each improbability compounds itself into astronomical odds very quickly
The list of idiosyncrasies that make life on Earth possible is a very long and far from mundane. I think the math suggests that the universe would have to be far larger to make another Earth likely.
Aside from this is the Fermi paradox- where is ET? just one single civilization, with technology little better than our own, has had time to colonize the entire galaxy many times over, yet this has apparently never happened- why? (ancient alien theories not withstanding!)
Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
Yes, we do have that ability to detect signals 100 years old (from 100 ly ) and 10,000 old from 10kly away- which would be impossible without the time lag.
So in terms of scoring a hit, picking up a signal, the time lag is a complete wash, the odds are exactly the same as they would be listening to the entire galaxy at once.
That's why they call it the great silence isn't it?
leibowde84
Veteran Member
That doesn't support your argument at all, as we have only been able thus far to explore 4% of the known universe with our current technology. Also, if there was intelligent life 1000 ly away, and they became capable of sending radio transmissions 999 yrs ago, could we detect them now? No. If there was 1 million planets with ET life all within 100 ly away that were not capable of communication, could we detect them now? No.
Your argument is full of holes. There are an infinite amount of possibilities where life could exist but we will never be able to communicate with them. And, considering that we've only been able to "look into" about 4% of the known universe so far using various machines, telescopes, etc., it is absurd to think that ET life is unlikely.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
There really is not much more I can say to you......your mind's closed earth-centric perspective on the universe prevents your understanding of what is being said to you about the larger picture... I will leave you to bask in the delight of your realization of how lucky Earth is to have spawned you...
Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
Exactly, just as if we were able to listen to everything instantly- could we detect anything sent in the past or future? no- only what was being sent right now!
Again it's precisely the same either way , it's a total wash isn't it? for every time/place we'd miss in one scenario- we'd gain one in the other
and either way- the galaxy is billions of years old- yet only a 100kly or so across... so that time slice represents very recent history either way.
The observation of the great silence is not proof, it merely supports the mathematical improbability of ET
The universe all came from the same place, a wide range of possible environments can be found right here in our solar system. Even right here on Earth, in places where conditions are not quite right, even surrounded with teaming complex life- none has even adapted, far less originated and thrived in our own inhospitable environs. FAR less intelligent beings
Consider that we are the only one in MILLIONS of species to achieve this. and only through extremely improbable circumstances. i.e. we could find a million planets identical to Earth, and expect to find dinosaurs, if anything more likely than humans- and that is generously granting you abiogenesis on all of them as 100% given
The universe just isn't all that big to cover the odds against ET
And once again, colonization is a logical step, certainly Hawking's sees it as our destiny- at least it's conceivable after a mere century of powered flight- yet not one single other civilization ever achieved likewise?
Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
There really is not much more I can say to you......your mind's closed earth-centric perspective on the universe prevents your understanding of what is being said to you about the larger picture... I will leave you to bask in the delight of your realization of how lucky Earth is...
I don't think it was luck!