A Universe from Nothing?

[godnotgod]

There is no "we" we are only illusions and "our senses" are just illusions being fooled by other illusions right?

The one who knows that this is so is without illusion.

 

[godnotgod]

No seriously if the world in the background is silent there's nothing to listen to... but what do I know I'm just an illusion addressing another illusion...

Go listen so you can see and be without illusion.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The one who knows that this is so is without illusion.

And who is this "one"?

 

[ArtieE]

Go listen so you can see and be without illusion.

But if I'm an illusion how can an illusion be without illusion?

 

[james bond]

Belief is not the way of zen....zen is about the realization of non-duality... where there is belief, there is a believer....when there is realization of the unity of existence....duality is absent.. What this oneness is called is not important....being one with it is.....

When you say belief, I assume you are not referring to faith. That you mean a feeling of being sure that someone or something exists or that something is true. And duality is the belief that everything has two opposite parts or principles. So when one meditates, one should get rid of their belief, their 'I' and their duality.

I think the following sounds like what you're talking about.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/japanese-zen/

 

[ArtieE]

And who is this "one"?

A virtual illusion...?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

A virtual illusion...?

Perhaps we should pinch ourselves to see if we are dreaming.

 

[james bond]

In Buddhism it is saddhā / śraddhā).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith_in_Buddhism

Ok. I remembered it wrong about what the reverend said about faith. He meant faith in the teachings of Buddah.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Ok. I remembered it wrong about what the reverend said about faith. He meant faith in the teachings of Buddah.

It is like having confidence in methods of practice.

 

[ArtieE]

Perhaps we should pinch ourselves to see if we are dreaming.

But we would be part of the dream so who is the dreamer?

 

[godnotgod]

But if I'm an illusion how can an illusion be without illusion?

Your body and identity are illusions. Your consciousness is real.

 

[ArtieE]

Perhaps we should pinch ourselves to see if we are dreaming.

If we all just sat down and meditated looking for "Ultimate Reality" and managed to get so disconnected from reality that we starve to death animals would shake their heads and go "Morons. Good riddance."

 

[godnotgod]

And who is this "one"?

Your true nature.

 

[ArtieE]

Your body and identity are illusions. Your consciousness is real.

Illusions don't have consciousness.

 

[godnotgod]

If we all just sat down and meditated looking for "Ultimate Reality" and managed to get so disconnected from reality that we starve to death animals would shake their heads and go "Morons. Good riddance."

So stop your seeking.

 

[godnotgod]

Illusions don't have consciousness.

But consciousness has illusions, and you're it.

 

[godnotgod]

But we would be part of the dream so who is the dreamer?

There is no dreamer of the dream; there is only dreaming, and the awakening from dreaming, just as there is no whirlpool that whirls water, but only whirling water.

 

[james bond]

Zen is really a mixture of Buddhism and Taoism.

Zen seems difficult to understand. I think I understand the Taoism more with its concept of yin and yang which would be dualism because of having acupuncture done on a monthly basis. I think it's preventative medicine albeit Eastern medicine. The non-Zen Buddhists seem to focus on the now and different states or levels of consciousness. In the Japanese sect I go to refers to the Sangha, Dharma and the Buddha and taking refuge.

 

[ArtieE]

Your true nature.

"My" true nature? There is no "my" I'm just an illusion remember?

 

[godnotgod]

Zen seems difficult to understand.

Pure Zen:

A special transmission outside the scriptures;
No dependence upon words and letters;
Direct pointing to the soul of man:
Seeing into one's own nature and attainment of Buddhahood

Bodhidharma, First Patriarch of Zen (4-6 Cent. AD)