A Universe from Nothing?

[godnotgod]

Just by the fact that you are interacting with him is indicative that he exists and is certainly as real as you are. If anyone's so-called logic is at fault it is yours.

Who is it that is interacting with who? There is no such 'i' or 'you'. All there is, is interaction, without an inter-actor, in precisely the same manner that there is only whirling water, without a 'water-whirler' otherwise known as 'whirlpool'. If you can show me where this 'I' exists, then by all means, proceed. But no one to date has been able to do so.

 

[godnotgod]

But sunyata is also incompatible with your new-age beliefs like "Cosmic Consciousness" and the big-bang being an "event in consciousness." Sunyata means that consciousness also lacks inherent existence and only arises in dependence on conditions, consciousness too is empty.

Your new-age dogma is really a sort of pseudo Hinduism, so I don't know why you keep harping on about Buddhism and pretending to be a Zennie. Perhaps you are trying to distract from the fact that you are really preaching Choprism?

I didn't say any of that. All I said was that Sunyata means that all phenomena are empty of self-nature, in response solely to mouse's claim that there is a core in man he refers to as an 'inherent multidimensional nature'. Period. Stop adding your knee-jerk crap to what is not there to begin with.

 

[godnotgod]

Apply this principle to your new-age beliefs like "Cosmic Consciousness" and the big bang being an "event in consciousness".

Why don't you? The issue here is about inherent self nature. What bearing does your post have on it?

 

[godnotgod]

Could you say some more about the multi-dimensional aspect, that is quite interesting?

Clever, but not clever enough. You want to hide the fact that mouse's actual words are 'inherent multidimensional nature', which you and I both know, via the Heart Sutra, is empty.

hip to your trix, Muldoon

 

[godnotgod]

That's just as well, because you won't get a reliable account from new-agers and DIY religionists.

That 'all phenomena are empty of self-nature' is unreliable?

twisting things again, Muldoon. naughty naughty.

 

[godnotgod]

I don't particularly care what Buddha was purported to have said.

You do understand that this is like a Muslim saying that my ideas run counter to what Muhammad claimed, right? And I should care because?

To quote a wonderful line from Neil Young, "It doesn't mean that much to me to mean that much to you."

You're throwing up smokescreen to avoid my and ben's inquiries.

Where is this so called 'inherent multidimensional nature' located, and
Where does your gestalt leave off and the Universe begin?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I didn't say any of that.

But you HAVE said all of that, repeatedly and at great length over a long period of time. You have preached Choprism interminably.

I notice you have avoided responding to the observation I made, that sunyata is also incompatible with your new-age beliefs like "Cosmic Consciousness" and the big-bang being an "event in consciousness", because consciousness is also empty, it doesn't exist from it's own side and only arises in dependence on conditions.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

That 'all phenomena are empty of self-nature' is unreliable?

It is when you refuse to apply it to your precious new-age beliefs like "Cosmic Consciousness" and the big bang being an "event in consciousness". It is when you don't understand what it really means.

And have you forgotten your fake Buddha quotes?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Clever, but not clever enough. You want to hide the fact that mouse's actual words are 'inherent multidimensional nature', which you and I both know, via the Heart Sutra, is empty.

It's a discussion forum, a place to explore ideas and different ways of looking at things. But then of course you are very dogmatic and only here to preach, and you are not the least bit interested in what anyone else has to say.

As for the Heart Sutra, you refuse to apply it to your precious new-age beliefs like "Cosmic Consciousness" and the big bang being an "event in consciousness". And it is clear from previous discussion that you don't understand it anyway, as with much of the Buddhist stuff you regurgitate here.
What you present is a horrible new-age parody of Buddhism. And Hinduism. And science.

 

[YmirGF]

You are continuing to attack the pointing finger, while ignoring what it points to!

May I direct you to the CONTENT of what the Buddha said, never mind who said it. I am simply asking you if you see what he is pointing to as valid, which is that all phenomena is empty of self nature. If you disagree, fine, but in that case, then, show us all where this 'inherent multidimensional nature' exists.

I've often referred to "Buddha' little joke" and would merrily suggest when you look deeply into the emptiness ... eventually.... you just might find something there. Maybe... no guarantees...

For the 2nd time, explain to me why the ideas of a non-Buddhist are supposed to mesh with what Buddha supposedly said? To answer your question, "Where this inherent multidimensional nature exists?" The answer, translated into YOUR terms, not mine, is that it is buried behind the nothingness, so that in order to find it you have to have already lost all your attachments cause it's like nothing you can possibly imagine.

 

[YmirGF]

Who is it that is interacting with who? There is no such 'i' or 'you'. All there is, is interaction, without an inter-actor, in precisely the same manner that there is only whirling water, without a 'water-whirler' otherwise known as 'whirlpool'. If you can show me where this 'I' exists, then by all means, proceed. But no one to date has been able to do so.

Oh, give up the superficial twaddle.

 

[YmirGF]

You're throwing up smokescreen to avoid my and ben's inquiries.

Where is this so called 'inherent multidimensional nature' located, and
Where does your gestalt leave off and the Universe begin?

You don't appreciate that your question are relatively nonsensical. I do understand that you can only relate from the perspective of your limited understanding, but you are, as usual, barking up the wrong tree. I've now answered question one to my satisfaction. Prove me wrong, LOL, and best of luck, in advance, on that score.

Question 2 is also a bit irrelevant without personally apprehending the multidimensional state. In my deepest states of realization I am quite aware that there is "something" beyond me or the perimeter of my awareness. Frankly, I don't know what it is, but I am pretty confident that it is not "me". I suppose, in very real terms, that perimeter would vary from individual to individual.

 

[YmirGF]

Could you say some more about the multi-dimensional aspect, that is quite interesting?

I'm not sure where to begin. It's a very large topic. What direction would you like to explore?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I'm not sure where to begin. It's a very large topic. What direction would you like to explore?

In what sense do you mean "multi-dimensional"? Like different levels of awareness or perspective?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The answer, translated into YOUR terms, not mine, is that it is buried behind the nothingness, so that in order to find it you have to have already lost all your attachments cause it's like nothing you can possibly imagine.

It certainly requires an open mind, a letting go of beliefs and dogma.

 

[ArtieE]

What I am suggesting is that, fresh from The Universe, a baby knows the basic game of The Universe, which is Hide and Seek, in the form of Peek A Boo. It was never taught to the baby. It just knows brain intuitively.

What the baby "knows" when it's born is what is hard wired into its brain as a result of evolution and natural selection. Nothing supernatural about that.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Why don't you? The issue here is about inherent self nature. What bearing does your post have on it?

Sunyata invalidates your new-age beliefs like "Cosmic Consciousness" and the big bang being an "event in consciousness". So you are shooting yourself in the foot by bringing it up. That you don't seem to realise this is a further demonstration that you have no real understanding of what sunyata means.

 

[ArtieE]

There is no 'something', but always only Nothing, masquerading itself as 'something', that 'something' being The Universe.

Firstly, the 'something' that we call The Universe is an illusion of a higher calibre than what we usually think of as 'illusion'. It is what the Hindus call 'maya'. We now even have scientific evidence from Quantum Physics that this so called 'material' reality is virtual in nature, since all of the mass of the atom is created by fluctuations in the Quantum and Higgs Fields, thereby creating virtual mass, rather than 'real' mass. Hence, this is a virtual reality Quantum Physics calls 'possibility' now, rather than a real material world.

But the Zen aphorism in question has to do with how the conditioned mind sees the material world, which is as a collection of unconscious 'things' via their description, rather than via their reality, and via the observer/observed duality. This first view is how we see 'mountain'.[/URL][/B][/SIZE]

These fluctuations aren't conscious. The mountain isn't conscious. We are, simply because our brains have different atoms and molecules than the mountain interacting in a different way. The Quantum Fluctuations aren't conscious they just produce collections of different atoms and molecules and some of these collections give rise to consciousness.

 

[ArtieE]

What on earth are you talking about? I am only saying that there is no such identity known as 'I'. It is an illusion.

In a way you are right. It is an illusion caused by the brain and evolved because collections of atoms and molecules who produced this illusion and consciousness had a better chance of surviving. When this brain dissolves the illusion of me disappears and I am no more.

 

[godnotgod]

But you HAVE said all of that, repeatedly and at great length over a long period of time. You have preached Choprism interminably.

I notice you have avoided responding to the observation I made, that sunyata is also incompatible with your new-age beliefs like "Cosmic Consciousness" and the big-bang being an "event in consciousness", because consciousness is also empty, it doesn't exist from it's own side and only arises in dependence on conditions.

This discussion is not about any of that. My input is solely in response to the claim that there is a core in man that mouse calls 'inherent multidimensional self nature', period. If you want to discuss the rest of that, start another thread. Now stop trying to hijack this thread.

You never proved your claim that I claimed to be enlightened. Instead, you conveniently went away and hid for awhile, in the hopes that this issue would go away. You lied. So where is your proof? Deliver or STFU.