A Universe from Nothing?

[godnotgod]

You don't appreciate that your question are relatively nonsensical. I do understand that you can only relate from the perspective of your limited understanding, but you are, as usual, barking up the wrong tree. I've now answered question one to my satisfaction. Prove me wrong, LOL, and best of luck, in advance, on that score.

Question 2 is also a bit irrelevant without personally apprehending the multidimensional state. In my deepest states of realization I am quite aware that there is "something" beyond me or the perimeter of my awareness. Frankly, I don't know what it is, but I am pretty confident that it is not "me". I suppose, in very real terms, that perimeter would vary from individual to individual.

Well, DUH! If the gestalt is a separate entity, then it is not part of the Oneness of the Universe. Show the point at which it is separate. You can't because it isn't. And you can't show where it is located because it is an illusion of your mind, something that is purely conceptual, and essentially does not exist.

 

[godnotgod]

For the 2nd time, explain to me why the ideas of a non-Buddhist are supposed to mesh with what Buddha supposedly said? To answer your question, "Where this inherent multidimensional nature exists?" The answer, translated into YOUR terms, not mine, is that it is buried behind the nothingness, so that in order to find it you have to have already lost all your attachments cause it's like nothing you can possibly imagine.

Look, I am not asking you to believe in anything, let alone a God; I am simply making a statement that happens to be Buddhistic, and asking you if you agree with it or not, and that statement, in response and contrary to your unsubstantiated claim, is that all phenomena are empty of self-nature. You have claimed that there is a core in man you call 'inherent multidimensional self nature'. I am just challenging the validity of that observation, and calling it an illusion of the mind.

I mean, do you at all get the fact that it comes from Buddhism is really unimportant, and what is important is the question itself, stripped of its source?

So now you are saying that this 'core' is inside man, but lies 'behind the nothingness', but is beyond the imagination, and that you really don't know what it is, as you previously stated? I think you're talking poppycock!

 

[godnotgod]

What the baby "knows" when it's born is what is hard wired into its brain as a result of evolution and natural selection. Nothing supernatural about that.

What? Peek a Boo is hard wired in by evolution and natural selection?

And who said anything about 'supernatural'? I am referring to consciousness, not some divine power over and above nature.

 

[godnotgod]

In a way you are right. It is an illusion caused by the brain and evolved because collections of atoms and molecules who produced this illusion and consciousness had a better chance of surviving. When this brain dissolves the illusion of me disappears and I am no more.

Enlightenment dissolves it before death.

 

[godnotgod]

These fluctuations aren't conscious. The mountain isn't conscious. We are, simply because our brains have different atoms and molecules than the mountain interacting in a different way. The Quantum Fluctuations aren't conscious they just produce collections of different atoms and molecules and some of these collections give rise to consciousness.

So you say. But in reality, the leap from the material unconscious world of atoms and molecules to that of a non-material conscious mind is huge, and you haven't provided the mechanism for that leap. Making the claim that consciousness emerges from the material brain is like saying that the images you see on the TV screen emerge from inside the TV set, when we know that they are, in fact, the result of TV signals in the air.

I already provided scientific proof to you that the brain is capable of non-local communication.

Where does the outside limit to your consciousness end and the 'unconscious' mountain begin?

But the point about the fluctuations is not that they are conscious, but that they create virtual mass, which in turn, creates a virtual reality. IOW, the 'material' world is an illusion.

 

[godnotgod]

It is an illusion caused by the brain and evolved because collections of atoms and molecules who produced this illusion and consciousness had a better chance of surviving. When this brain dissolves the illusion of me disappears and I am no more.

I see. So evolution produced a highly sophisticated organ that in essence, is unreliable as it has a tendency to create illusions, eh? Come now. You can do better than that.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I understand perfectly that the BB was an event in consciousness, but you certainly haven't a clue, because you're still attached to your materialist paradigm.

That is just a new-age creation myth, a bit of dogma inspired by the charlatan Chopra. The same is true about "Cosmic Consciousness". But both of these beliefs are invalidated by sunyata, which you are clueless about.

All you do is post fake Buddha quotes and present a twisted new-age parody of authentic teachings, along with your pseudo-science.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Now stop trying to hijack this thread.

Don't be ridiculous, you are the serial thread hijacker. You just can't cope with your bizarre new-age dogma being challenged, your only response is to patronise, lecture and insult.

 

[james bond]

Here is a similar example of the universe from nothing mentality. It's something that Christians do not believe in -- the Bermuda Triangle. Some call it the Devil's Triangle. Sure ships and planes have disappeared from the area and people vanished into thin air, but there's a logical explanation such as bad weather. I have Charles Berlitz's (grandson of man who founded Berlitz language schools) book, and his best selling book from the 70s just added to the myth. The latest news story is here. Do you believe or give credibility to this report?

http://www.wlox.com/story/33480724/...-mystery-may-lie-in-the-clouds-scientists-say

 

[ArtieE]

What? Peek a Boo is hard wired in by evolution and natural selection?

Just read online about babies and Peek a Boo.

 

[ArtieE]

So you say. But in reality, the leap from the material unconscious world of atoms and molecules to that of a non-material conscious mind is huge

So you say but there's no evidence for that.

and you haven't provided the mechanism for that leap.

There was no "leap". It was the next natural step in evolution that collections with bigger and bigger brains would evolve a sense of self and see themselves as "I".

Where does the outside limit to your consciousness end and the 'unconscious' mountain begin?

Where my physical brain stops. The bones in my skull aren't conscious.

 

[ArtieE]

I see. So evolution produced a highly sophisticated organ that in essence, is unreliable as it has a tendency to create illusions, eh? Come now. You can do better than that.

LOL The brain creates a sense of self and an "I". It was just the logical evolutionary next step as brains got more and more sophisticated.

 

[godnotgod]

So you say but there's no evidence for that.There was no "leap". It was the next natural step in evolution that collections with bigger and bigger brains would evolve a sense of self and see themselves as "I".Where my physical brain stops. The bones in my skull aren't conscious.

Ridiculous. Consciousness is non-material. Bones can't stop the non-material. Everything you see is held within your consciousness.

Your physical brain is held within the entire Universe. There is no separation between them. There is no separation between your consciousness and the Universe. Your consciousness and The Universe are one and the same. But it's actually not YOUR consciousness. That is just an illusion, just as the water in a wave is not the wave's water; it is the water of the entire ocean.

You see the hedge against the hills;
you see the hills against the sky;
but you see the sky against consciousness.

 

[ArtieE]

Ridiculous. Consciousness is non-material. Bones can't stop the non-material. Everything you see is held within your consciousness.

Ridiculous. That this brain is conscious of itself and other things is just a natural result of its complexity and the processes going on in it.

 

[viole]

Ridiculous. Consciousness is non-material. Bones can't stop the non-material. Everything you see is held within your consciousness.

Your physical brain is held within the entire Universe. There is no separation between them. There is no separation between your consciousness and the Universe. Your consciousness and The Universe are one and the same. But it's actually not YOUR consciousness. That is just an illusion, just as the water in a wave is not the wave's water; it is the water of the entire ocean.

You see the hedge against the hills;
you see the hills against the sky;
but you see the sky against consciousness.

My consciosness seems to react pretty badly to very physical thing. For intance a hammer blow on the head or 20 vodka shots.

Ciao

- viole

 

[godnotgod]

My consciosness seems to react pretty badly to very physical thing. For intance a hammer blow on the head or 20 vodka shots.

Ciao

- viole

Sure. Your brain is a receptor, storage unit, and processor of information from consciousness. Take a hammer to a TV set and it will go bonkers, but the TV signal is still in the air.

We do have scientific evidence that the brain is capable of non-local communication.

 

[godnotgod]

Ridiculous. That this brain is conscious of itself and other things is just a natural result of its complexity and the processes going on in it.

Easy to say, but that assumes that the source of consciousness is the brain, and that has not yet been demonstrated. There is a hypothesis about it called 'Emergent Theory', which is not a bona-fide scientific theory at all. It's just a notion at this point. Probe the brain and you get emotional responses and the neurologists declare they have located consciousness and the person himself.

A blade of grass is far less complex than a brain, and yet can manufacture it's own food without a brain, something we can only dream of doing with a brain. So is a blade of grass more intelligent than a human?

You still have not addressed the question of where this non-material consciousness ends and the outside world begins. The bony skull cannot 'contain' non-materiality as if it were water in a glass. Show me the point of transition.

 

[viole]

Sure. Your brain is a receptor, storage unit, and processor of information from consciousness. Take a hammer to a TV set and it will go bonkers, but the TV signal is still in the air.

We do have scientific evidence that the brain is capable of non-local communication.

Mmmh. i don't remember what happened soon after getting drunk on account bof 20 vodka shots. For sure that consciousness of mine seems to have been sleeping, too. I wonder what she was doing in the meantime.

May I suggest consciousness to keep backups? Since my brain is a storage, I would expect consciousness to be equally technologically advanced.

Ciao

- viole

 

[godnotgod]

Mmmh. i don't remember what happened soon after getting drunk on account bof 20 vodka shots. For sure that consciousness of mine seems to have been sleeping, too. I wonder what she was doing in the meantime.

May I suggest consciousness to keep backups? Since my brain is a storage, I would expect consciousness to be equally technologically advanced.

Ciao

- viole

Probably trying to get your attention to watch what you were doing. It cannot work with a physically drunken brain. Your ego made a decision to get drunk, pointing to the need to be mindful (conscious) of what you're doing at every moment.

 

[ArtieE]

Sure. Your brain is a receptor, storage unit, and processor of information from consciousness. Take a hammer to a TV set and it will go bonkers, but the TV signal is still in the air.

Take a hammer to the tv transmitter and there'll be no signal in the air.