A Universe from Nothing?

[Araceli Cianna]

I think the idea of the universe being created by another being is ludicrous. To me it somehow just makes natural sense that it came from nothing. I can't explain it logically, but I believe it.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I think the idea of the universe being created by another being is ludicrous. To me it somehow just makes natural sense that it came from nothing. I can't explain it logically, but I believe it.

Yes you are correct, it is not logical, a creation of the universe by nothing from nothing is equally as ludicrous imho, than a creation of the universe by some unknown creator from nothing. What makes sense is that the universe itself is eternal, but the manifested finite forms made of matter and energy within it are continuously being recycled anew.

 

[godnotgod]

Space-time is a concept that integrates space (which is real) and time (also real).
It's real in a mathematical sense, it allows predictions to be made about the motion of space.

What is the reference we use, for example, to establish as real what we call 'space'?

You are seeing time as a human concept, i see it as a marker of entropy. Dimensions (space) and the arrow of time do exist in nature.

Perhaps you are confusing space with vacuum. Space is far from empty.

Aren't both dimension and the arrow of time still conceptual overlays onto nature, making you think they are actually part of nature, when, in reality, they are exclusively properties of the mind?

Do you really believe there is a past, present, and future, or is there only this now?

 

[godnotgod]

Time does exist. It is a measurable phenomenon.

But wait: isn't Time itself the measurement grid, rather than that which is being measured?

 

[godnotgod]

I think the idea of the universe being created by another being is ludicrous. To me it somehow just makes natural sense that it came from nothing. I can't explain it logically, but I believe it.

Yes, it's an intuitive understanding that you simply SEE, rather than conclude via logical thought processes.

 

[Corvus]

But wait: isn't Time itself the measurement grid, rather than that which is being measured?

No. Time is real. It is not an abstract invention, like money. Time is a dimension we exist in, along with the three spatial dimensions. It is a physical characteristic of the universe. Time and space were created at the moment of the big bang,

 

[Corvus]

Sorry, time does not exist outside of the human mind. The concept of time represents the continuation of existence or part thereof, and/or the proxy measurement via a mechanical or electronic clock device of the continuation of existence or part thereof.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Time is integral to the dimensional matrix of reality, space and time, spacetime. Time is not simply an illusory construct. Please don' t respond to me further on this subject because I will not respond, you are scientifically illiterate (here) and conversing with such as yourself on this matter is futile.

 

[Corvus]

Yes you are correct, it is not logical, a creation of the universe by nothing from nothing is equally as ludicrous imho, than a creation of the universe by some unknown creator from nothing. What makes sense is that the universe itself is eternal, but the manifested finite forms made of matter and energy within it are continuously being recycled anew.

You have no idea what you are talking about here. The sum energy of the entire universe is precisely zero. Energy is neither created or destroyed. Energy remember is a transferable property, of another object or system of objects.

 

[godnotgod]

Yes you are correct, it is not logical, a creation of the universe by nothing from nothing is equally as ludicrous imho, than a creation of the universe by some unknown creator from nothing. What makes sense is that the universe itself is eternal, but the manifested finite forms made of matter and energy within it are continuously being recycled anew.

'form is emptiness;
emptiness is form'

Manifestation is not creation.

 

[godnotgod]

You have no idea what you are talking about. Time is part of the dimensional matrix of reailty, space and time, spacetime. Time is not simply an illusory construct. Please don' t respond to me further on this subject because I will not respond, you are scientifically illiterate and conversing with such as yourself on this matter is futile.

"In physics, spacetime is any mathematical model that fuses the three dimensions of space and the one dimension of time into a single 4‑dimensional continuum."
Spacetime - Wikipedia

A model is a construct, or concept, of the mind. Science itself refers to Space-Time as 'the concept of Space-Time', and not the reality of Space-Time.

Space itself has no dimensionality perse. The idea of dimension originates in the mind.

 

[Corvus]

"In physics, spacetime is any mathematical model that fuses the three dimensions of space and the one dimension of time into a single 4‑dimensional continuum."
Spacetime - Wikipedia

A model is a construct, or concept, of the mind. Science itself refers to Space-Time as 'the concept of Space-Time', and not the reality of Space-Time.

Space itself has no dimensionality perse. The idea of dimension originates in the mind.

Laughable. All scientific theories are effectively mathematical models.

You have no idea what you are talking about either.

 

[Willamena]

But wait: isn't Time itself the measurement grid, rather than that which is being measured?

It's a dimension, like distance. As such, it is a measure as well as what is being measured.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You have no idea what you are talking about. Time is part of the dimensional matrix of realty, space and time, spacetime. Time is not simply an illusory construct. Pleas don' t respond to me further on this subject because I will not respond, you are scientifically illiterate.

Because you disagree with me and thus refuse to debate logically the basis of 'time' as a concept, only shows you are afraid for the fate of your presently held cherished belief in time as having reality outside the mind. Seriously, I am happy to engage with you in the spirit of learning, we can only grow/evolve through the correction of our erroneously held beliefs. It is not about winning a debate, but about what we learn in the process of debating.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

It's a dimension, like distance. As such, it is a measure as well as what is being measured.

Precisely what is being measured?

 

[Corvus]

Because you disagree with me and thus refuse to debate logically the basis of 'time' as a concept, only shows you are afraid for the fate of your presently held cherished belief in time as having reality outside the mind. Seriously, I am happy to engage with you in the spirit of learning, we can only grow/evolve through the correction of our erroneously held beliefs. It is not about winning a debate, but about what we learn in the process of debating.

Please don't bother. I am not going to discuss it further. As for learning, that is rich...

 

[Corvus]

Precisely what is being measured?

Entropy.

 

[godnotgod]

Laughable. All scientific theories are effectively mathematical models.

You have no idea what you are talking about either.

A mathematical model is a representation of reality; not reality itself. You are confused.

 

[Corvus]

A mathematical model is a representation of reality; not reality itself. You are confused.

The basis of science is that models of reality are approximations of reality, factual until proven otherwise. It is you that needs help to understand.

 

[godnotgod]

It's a dimension, like distance. As such, it is a measure as well as what is being measured.

You are confusing the measuring tool with that which is being measured. That which is being measured is not the measuring tool.

 

[Corvus]

You godnotgod are in no position to define reality, only science is qualified to approximate it accurately with prediction and experiment.