Abolition of Alcohol

[Aupmanyav]

I find it amusing that you would suppose that whatever it is that YOU like, anybody doing something else must be doing so as a substitute for your preference. Are you the "standard model" human?

Is he not a Bahai? Bahais are a class apart. The ones with the latest message from Allah (if you disregard Mirza Gholam Ahmad of the Ahamadiyyas).

 

[CG Didymus]

Prohibition did not work, so what will work if we see the need to reduce alcohol consumption by a vast percentage?

I do not find that any different from IS, Taliban laws. Not surprising because Bahaiism, after all, is a fork of Islam,

I forgot that some religious people already have a ban on alcohol. What do Mormons and Muslims do to enforce their laws prohibiting alcohol? And how successful are they at keeping their people from drinking alcohol?

That is only for Baha'i and that law will get more details in the future. We have said this many times. If you are not a Baha'i the law of the Nation will be your guide.

Do Baha'is believe they have the remedy for the world's ills that have been sent by God through Baha'u'llah? Do Baha'is believe that most all people will come to believe in the Baha'i Faith and allow "God's" laws to be the law of the land?

Unity of humanity under the Bahai banner. Most people will have problems with that.

These type of replies keep ignoring the advice that the decisions will not be made by Baha'i, but by a union of nations, by a united people.

Baha'is sure put a lot of trust in this "union" of nations. If God is real... and if Baha'u'llah is God's messenger, then those laws should be the ones all people live by. But do all people believe that Baha'u'llah is speaking for God? Will this "union" of nations be led by people that believe that Baha'u'llah speaks for God? If they do, then it might as well be Baha'is running things. But if these people don't believe in Baha'u'llah, what will be guiding their decisions? Why do you think they will make the wisest and best choices for the world?

If Baha'is don't control the whole world and implement "God's" laws, then are they really from God? If the Baha'i Faith and the teachings of Baha'u'llah don't lead the world into peace and unity, then what good are they? They'll just be another religion that thinks it is right that very few people take seriously. So fine, Baha'is don't drink. Good for you. But what good is that when the rest of the world is filled with booze and drugs and all sorts of other vices?

But I think the Baha'is do plan on having control. I think that they believe God is putting things in place that will cause people to have to turn to the Baha'i Faith to solve the problems that are heading for total destruction of the whole world. I think Baha'is believe these "laws" of God will be put in place and are necessary to save people from themselves, their "lower" selves, their "lower" animal nature. But if you say "no", then fine. I guess Baha'is will have their own laws and the rest of the people will have different laws.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

• According to the Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System (BRFSS) survey, in 2018, more than half of the US adult population drank alcohol in the past 30 days. About 16% of the adult population reported binge drinking, and 7% reported heavy drinking.

• According to the ARDI application, during 2011–2015, excessive alcohol use was responsible for an annual average of 95,000 deaths and 2.8 million years of potential life lost. Almost half of these deaths and three-quarters of the years of potential life lost were due to binge drinking.

• Alcohol use poses additional problems for underage drinkers and pregnant women.

Data on Excessive Drinking | CDC

Fetal alcohol spectrum disorders (FASDs) are a group of conditions that can occur in a person whose mother drank alcohol during pregnancy. FASDs are preventable if a woman does not drink alcohol during pregnancy.

Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorders (FASDs)

The 2019 Youth Risk Behavior Survey5,6 found that among high school students, during the past 30 days

• 29% drank alcohol.
• 14% binge drank.
• 5% of drivers drove after drinking alcohol.
• 17% rode with a driver who had been drinking alcohol.

Underage Drinking | CDC

You decide whether this is worth not educating on the risks of drinking. I'm not advocating anything but presenting these facts to kids.

I have an opinion that alcohol is not needed, that it a substitute for spirituality, but I don't think the world is set up to make that a maxim that a teacher would present.

Of course it's worth it to talk with kids and adults about the dangers of alcohol abuse. But this doesn't change my earlier reply that prompted this that the vast vast majority of people who drink alcohol do not harm themselves doing so.

 

[ecco]

I don't really know much about the former, the latter [alcohol] - because of the cost to the individual and society.

Before you comment on the cost to society, you really need to read up on what happened in America as a result of Prohibition.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Our system is the Marijuana drink (Bhang, Thandai). Nice ice-cool flavored drink. Have as much as you want. Openly available at control prices at licensed shops (there could be an improvement in the method of delivery, perhaps make it open it to all. Similarly, liquor from licensed shops at regulated prices - that is supposedly to save from adulteration, though I doubt as to how much does it help). However, the stronger things are unlawful (Ganja, Charas). Opium is used and offered by former warrior clans (Rajputs). It is obligatory to offer it to guests and obligatory to accept it when offered.

Jaswant Singh offering Opium to guests (it is offered as liquid in one's palm or as pallets): Jaswant singh offering opium to guests - Google Search

"Major Jaswant Singh Rathore (1938 – 2020) was an officer of the Indian Army and an Indian Cabinet Minister. He was one of the founding members of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), and was one of India's longest serving parliamentarians, having been a member of the Lok Sabha or the Rajya Sabha almost continuously between 1980 and 2014. He was NDA's Vice-presidential candidate in the 2012 Indian vice presidential election. Singh was the only leader from Rajasthan who had the distinction of becoming the Minister Of External Affairs, Finance and Defense of Government of India."
Jaswant Singh - Wikipedia

 

[Praise Jah]

This to me is an important topic and will eventually be a topic discussed around the world because of the dire consequences this drug of choice inflicts upon the individual, the family, the community, the Nation and on to the entire body of humanity.

I unfortunately live in a Nation that pride themselves on getting drunk, and that mentality is expanding as the world is locked down.

I long for the day when the business of Alcohol is seen for what it has become, a killer of humanity.

So this OP shows my stance, that alcoholic beverages are not needed they are a drug of choice and all recreational drugs need to be Abolished. America tried, so what will it take?

What is your stance, what is your view?

Edit I added this so the intent of this OP is known, as my wording might not have shown that is the case.

"So this OP is all about choice and this OP is to explore why we would choose to abstain, if there was no law, or if we may again consider that a law is needed."

Regards Tony

Wine makes the heart rejoice. (Psalms 104:15) It also has medicinal properties. (1 Timothy 5:23) The very first miracle Jesus performed was turning water to wine. (John 2:1-11)

But the Bible condemns drunkenness and being a drunkard and a glutton. So, if anyone has a personal problem consuming alcohol in moderation only then they should avoid it and not drink it. (Romans 13:13) (Proverbs 23:20) (Proverbs 23:29-35)

Does it matter? Yes, it does. Drunkards will not inherit everlasting life in Jehovah God's Kingdom. (1 Corinthians 6:10)

 

[GardenLady]

Barbara Bush's "Just say no" is a good example of that.

Nancy Reagan.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But I think the Baha'is do plan on having control. I think that they believe God is putting things in place that will cause people to have to turn to the Baha'i Faith to solve the problems that are heading for total destruction of the whole world. I think Baha'is believe these "laws" of God will be put in place and are necessary to save people from themselves, their "lower" selves, their "lower" animal nature. But if you say "no", then fine. I guess Baha'is will have their own laws and the rest of the people will have different laws.

Again CG, Baha'i do not want control, rend unto Caesar what is Caesar's has been God's way and Mankind will always have their own governance.

Baha'u'llah answered that for you CG and it is what has been offered all along at this link.
Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 253-254

".. Now that ye have refused the Most Great Peace, hold ye fast unto this, the Lesser Peace, that haply ye may in some degree better your own condition and that of your dependents.
O rulers of the earth! Be reconciled among yourselves, that ye may need no more armaments save in a measure to safeguard your territories and dominions. Beware lest ye disregard the counsel of the All-Knowing, the Faithful.
Be united, O kings of the earth, for thereby will the tempest of discord be stilled amongst you, and your peoples find rest, if ye be of them that comprehend. Should any one among you take up arms against another, rise ye all against him, for this is naught but manifest justice."

That is very clear that the Most Great Peace would have been all people under One God with One Faith in God following God given Virtues, Morals and Laws and that was rejected. Will it be accepted in the next 1000 years, or maybe after the next Manifestation?

So the Lesser Peace is not Built by the Baha'i and we have no way of knowing how that will come about, but we have been warned of the Calamity we are bringing upon ourselves and we are warned of an unexpected calamity that will cause the limbs of mankind to quake. It says then and only then will the divine banner be unfolded.

My guess is that the Lesser Peace will draw form and be founded on the advice given by Baha'u'llah, e en if people do not embrace Baha'u'llah in Faith.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Wine makes the heart rejoice. (Psalms 104:15) It also has medicinal properties. (1 Timothy 5:23) The very first miracle Jesus performed was turning water to wine. (John 2:1-11)

But the Bible condemns drunkenness and being a drunkard and a glutton. So, if anyone has a personal problem consuming alcohol in moderation only then they should avoid it and not drink it. (Romans 13:13) (Proverbs 23:20) (Proverbs 23:29-35)

Does it matter? Yes, it does. Drunkards will not inherit everlasting life in Jehovah God's Kingdom. (1 Corinthians 6:10)

At one time God has indeed allowed the consumption of wine.

I see that law was changed with Muhammad and then the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

I personally see that God knows what issues we will face, that does destroy our spiritual capacity, and warns us against those actions before we partake of them.

There is actually no excuse for us to partake of Alcohol if we are a beleiver in God.

But that is our choice according to our Nature and Nurture.

Regards Tony

 

[Secret Chief]

Before you comment on the cost to society, you really need to read up on what happened in America as a result of Prohibition.

As I said, I don't recommend prohibition.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I find it amusing that you would suppose that whatever it is that YOU like, anybody doing something else must be doing so as a substitute for your preference. Are you the "standard model" human?

That opinion was given by a Messenger from God.

I just offered that, as it is a chosen way of life, not a personal opinion.

The OP is not forcing that view, it is asking is it possible that Alcohol will be abolished from our daily lives, what will it take?

This OP shows that it will have to be our choice.

Regards Tony

 

[John53]

Define "junk food" rigorously, so that it can put into a coherent law.

The last thing we need is coherent laws.

 

[Secret Chief]

The last thing we need is coherent laws.

Such laws on food categories already exist based on things such as minimum or maximum percentages of particular ingredients. For example the recent Irish ruling on Subway rolls. (10% sugar in the flour)

 

[John53]

Such laws on food categories already exist based on things such as minimum or maximum percentages of particular ingredients. For example the recent Irish ruling on Subway rolls. (10% sugar in the flour)

I rest my case

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

That opinion was given by a Messenger from God.

I just offered that, as it is a chosen way of life, not a personal opinion.

The OP is not forcing that view, it is asking is it possible that Alcohol will be abolished from our daily lives, what will it take?

This OP shows that it will have to be our choice.

Regards Tony

Tony, it simply can't be helped: what you see as "a messenger from God," I see as "somebody who claims to be a messenger from God." Since I believe in no gods at all, it's pretty hard for me to suppose that such messengers can be what is claimed by and for them.

 

[DNB]

Thats good.

Agreed, ...certain measures are effective. We needn't assume that all previous failed attempts are indicative of the public's reaction to prohibitions.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

The last thing we need is coherent laws.

You prefer incoherent ones? Or just none at all?

 

[John53]

You prefer incoherent ones? Or just none at all?

Incoherent laws keep the legal professions employed. I'd hate to be responsible for thousands of lost jobs.

 

[Truthseeker]

PTSD.
MDMA-assisted therapy for severe PTSD: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled phase 3 study | Nature Medicine

Hasn't been approved yet, but probably will.

"We conclude that MDMA-assisted therapy represents a potential breakthrough treatment that merits expedited clinical evaluation."

I don't have PTSD, but could be approved in the future. It's not something I would ever use on the street.

It's a very old and widespread use, especially psilocybin mushrooms (as they grow basically about everywhere).

"Psilocybin mushrooms have not been known to cause physical or psychological dependence (addiction).[32] The psychedelic effects tend to appear around 20 minutes after ingestion and can last up to 6 hours. Physical effects including nausea, vomiting, euphoria, muscle weakness or relaxation, drowsiness, and lack of coordination may occur."

"As with many psychedelic substances, the effects of psychedelic mushrooms are subjective and can vary considerably among individual users. The mind-altering effects of psilocybin-containing mushrooms typically last from three to eight hours depending on dosage, preparation method, and personal metabolism. The first 3–4 hours after ingestion are typically referred to as the 'peak'—in which the user experiences more vivid visuals and distortions in reality. The effects can seem to last much longer to the user because of psilocybin's ability to alter time perception."

I also see it has been traditionally used by some indigenous people of North America. I respect their culture. However, back in the day they were ignorant that what they were experiencing a distortion of reality. I don't think a distortion of reality is good. They should be told today that what they are experiencing is not reality. I wouldn't ban it though as it is not addictive and they probably use it only on special occasions.

ortugal decriminalized all drugs and drugs usage went down.
I'd say that's a very appropriate step if that's what we can expect.

If you remember, I advocated decimalization or light penalty for users. I advocated education, and yes, I include treatment. What about sellers? I accessed online on Wikipedia about this, and in a scan of the article saw nothing about sellers.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Incoherent laws keep the legal professions employed. I'd hate to be responsible for thousands of lost jobs.