Abolition of Alcohol

[Shadow Wolf]

I would like a dollar for every motor vehicle driver, or disturber of the peace, or worker about to be tested, who gave that line to the policing officer.

I had a couple, but I am ok they say, but luckily science tells us what it does do and one of the things is a that a person thinks they are dandy, when they are not.

So my guess is I would shoot to the top of the richest person in the world with those dollars.

Regards Tony

Just because you have a drink doesn't mean you are automatically intoxicated. That's an odd and unusual assumption to think someone is automatically drunk and intoxicated just because they had a drink.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Just because you have a drink doesn't mean you are automatically intoxicated. That's an odd and unusual assumption to think someone is automatically drunk and intoxicated just because they had a drink.

For a woman it is one standard dink, for a man it is 2 standard drinks.

If the effects are not felt, why drink, makes no sense. Maybe just habit?

Regards Tony

 

[JustGeorge]

For a woman it is one standard dink, for a man it is 2 standard drinks.

If the effects are not felt, why drink, makes no sense. Maybe just habit?

Regards Tony

Some of the drinks are tasty.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Some of the drinks are tasty.

Ha ha, I know, I loved Bailey's Irish Cream and Ozzo lime and Lemonade and a good Red wine.

Yet now a good herbal tea is great.

Regards Tony

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Bailey's Irish Cream

That is what I had the other day, except it was Costco's brand (it has more of a caramel tatse). And I drank it because I like the taste. I also like margaritas, and it's made even better with chips and salsa. Wine coolers are generally delicious. And even the occasional beer hits the spot.

If the effects are not felt, why drink, makes no sense. Maybe just habit?

A lot of them are very tasty. Seagram's Escapes, for example, has many very yummy drinks if you like fruity flavors.

For a woman it is one standard dink, for a man it is 2 standard drinks.

That all entirely depends. Such as tolerance levels, weight, and a host of individual medications.
Me, I tend to sip my drinks over a period of time so I'm not feeling much from them compared to if I guzzled them.

 

[ecco]

Barbara Bush's "Just say no" is a good example of that.

Nancy Reagan.

Dang! That stuff did warp my brain.

 

[ecco]

Yes indeed I see not doubt hands down recreational Drugs should be abolished, preferably by choice, but if not, by a very strong enforcement of the drug trade on a worldwide intensive basis.

Don't you think that was tried. Don't you know it was a complete failure.
You can't get people to choose the way you want them to. Bahais are not the governors of the world and never will be.

This OP was exploring what can be done with the Alcohol Issue, it appears that the majority will like to see things stay as they are, but I doubt the future will have the same views.

On what are your doubts based. They are certainly not based on the reality of human nature. Your rose-colored religious views bear no semblance to reality.

 

[ecco]

Yeah, but don't you kind of think that alcohol tends to erode autonomy. What does it do to families, what does it do to people's kids. My dad was a vigorous alcoholic for much of my life, until the diabetes and the comas kicked in. He got home and drank, within a few minutes. It changed his mood into that of a gloomy, negative person.

It caused him to rant about how responsible he was, and how much he disliked other people, and he could rant and judge everything and everyone, all because of that depressant effect. Then eventually he'd pass out, after filling the house with beer-fueled complaining, only to do it the next day.

Your comments are like the ones used to convince people that banning alcohol was the right thing to do.

Was prohibition a success or a failure? It was an abject failure.

I'm not being personal nor commenting on your situation, but, in many instances, alcoholism is an effect, not a cause. People abuse alcohol or drugs because of other reasons.

On the flip side, millions drink and smoke and ingest with no lasting problems.

 

[ecco]

So how can Consumption be Abolished?

So far the most logical explanation has been Education and I am all for that, so when can we start teaching it?

Who says education is the most logical path? Besides you? For something to be logical, it must be realistic. You continue to offer "solutions" without giving any thought to how realistic they are. Why?

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Your comments are like the ones used to convince people that banning alcohol was the right thing to do.

Was prohibition a success or a failure? It was an abject failure.

Well in my next comment below the one you quoted, I write that I don't think you should drink and parent, but that you can drink if it is only affecting you. You don't want people to drink and drive, so why should you want people to drink and parent? Does watching that fortify the child's mind with these higher ideas of responsibility, or does the negative energy of the drinker start to erode the foundation of the child? Are we as a society, expecting a child to wisely assess how alcohol should be used via watching what it does to a parent?

I'm not being personal nor commenting on your situation, but, in many instances, alcoholism is an effect, not a cause. People abuse alcohol or drugs because of other reasons.

On the flip side, millions drink and smoke and ingest with no lasting problems.

Why not see that it can be both, with a number of reasons why it is being used, and with a number of causes it can then have. Maybe a person started early, like my dad, and can't get off it due to a probable genetic factor. And maybe, the construction accident he had when I was 9 would strengthen the addiction, because now he was trying to sooth pain, and cope with the stress of raising me. But then, if alcohol breaks down the bones eventually, maybe that makes for more pain, and the feedback loop is reinforced once more

 

[amorphous_constellation]

The vast majority of people stop there. Abuse is far, far, far less common than social or occasional drinking.

Most people don't have those problems. Last time I drank I didn't even get drunk.

Ok now I have to share something that's going to be the ace in the hole here. And that is this: I come from Wisconsin. That's right, I'm in the most medieval territory of the midwest, if not the country. And every american who looks up information on wisconsin will find something conspicuous: we are culturally known for drinking. This should shock and disgust people. But that fact is, the association of drinking and Wisconsin has always been with the connotation of legitimacy, and normalcy.

But how do you think it really is here. We have towns where main-street is lined with 30 bars. Everyone I know has been affected by alcohol in some way, whether through dui's, drunken parents or other family, or they are addicts themselves. It is not cultural activity, that you write about on a poster or official website. It's something that people do when the winters get long, and they are bored. And they do it in their houses when it gets down to -20, and their families have no escape

The behavior would generally be rationalized the same way, even here: there would commonly be a denial that there was a problem

 

[JustGeorge]

Well in my next comment below the one you quoted, I write that I don't think you should drink and parent, but that you can drink if it is only affecting you. You don't want people to drink and drive, so why should you want people to drink and parent? Does watching that fortify the child's mind with these higher ideas of responsibility, or does the negative energy of the drinker start to erode the foundation of the child? Are we as a society, expecting a child to wisely assess how alcohol should be used via watching what it does to a parent?

I think your ideas are noble here, but not realistic. Many parents who drink don't abuse alcohol or behave in detrimental ways while drinking. It isn't the best modeled behavior, but where do you draw the line? What about a parent who 'shuts down' and spends hours on their cell phone? That would be modeling inappropriate use of technology. Or a parent who overeats? That models an unhealthy relationship with food. All are problems with moderation.

As long as the parent is not neglecting, abusing, or otherwise causing the child harm with their drinking, I'm not sure how one could pick on just this negative habit specifically. Parents aren't perfect; nobody is.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Ok now I have to share something that's going to be the ace in the hole here. And that is this: I come from Wisconsin. That's right, I'm in the most medieval territory of the midwest, if not the country. And every american who looks up information on wisconsin will find something conspicuous: we are culturally known for drinking. This should shock and disgust people. But that fact is, the association of drinking and Wisconsin has always been with the connotation of legitimacy, and normalcy.

But how do you think it really is here. We have towns where main-street is lined with 30 bars. Everyone I know has been affected by alcohol in some way, whether through dui's, drunken parents or other family, or they are addicts themselves. It is not cultural activity, that you write about on a poster or official website. It's something that people do when the winters get long, and they are bored. And they do it in their houses when it gets down to -20, and their families have no escape

When I drink it's generally at my house.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

When I drink it's generally at my house.

That isn't how it works around here, in Wisconsin. We have a huge bar culture. But we do have some alcoholics who just stick in the house, like my dad did. We have social drinkers and anti-social drinkers

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Don't you think that was tried. Don't you know it was a complete failure.
You can't get people to choose the way you want them to. Bahais are not the governors of the world and never will be.

Firstly this is not about Baha'i, even though luckily we have strong guidance and laws on these issues and we will not make the laws for the Nations, so your point is moot.

Nonot hard enough, I also see the war on drugs is yet to start, as no way have we tried hard enough as a United World to rid ourselves from these pernicious habits.

That will be the key, when we can tackle it on all fronts in all Nations.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Who says education is the most logical path? Besides you? For something to be logical, it must be realistic. You continue to offer "solutions" without giving any thought to how realistic they are. Why?

Ecco your just here to stir, you obviously have not read other peoples posts.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Ok now I have to share something that's going to be the ace in the hole here. And that is this: I come from Wisconsin. That's right, I'm in the most medieval territory of the midwest, if not the country. And every american who looks up information on wisconsin will find something conspicuous: we are culturally known for drinking. This should shock and disgust people. But that fact is, the association of drinking and Wisconsin has always been with the connotation of legitimacy, and normalcy.

But how do you think it really is here. We have towns where main-street is lined with 30 bars. Everyone I know has been affected by alcohol in some way, whether through dui's, drunken parents or other family, or they are addicts themselves. It is not cultural activity, that you write about on a poster or official website. It's something that people do when the winters get long, and they are bored. And they do it in their houses when it gets down to -20, and their families have no escape

The behavior would generally be rationalized the same way, even here: there would commonly be a denial that there was a problem

It is mostly worldwide and I see it is fed by an unbridled liberty of choice and opression of race and gender.

Regards Tony

 

[amorphous_constellation]

I think your ideas are noble here, but not realistic. Many parents who drink don't abuse alcohol or behave in detrimental ways while drinking. It isn't the best modeled behavior, but where do you draw the line? What about a parent who 'shuts down' and spends hours on their cell phone? That would be modeling inappropriate use of technology. Or a parent who overeats? That models an unhealthy relationship with food. All are problems with moderation.

As long as the parent is not neglecting, abusing, or otherwise causing the child harm with their drinking, I'm not sure how one could pick on just this negative habit specifically. Parents aren't perfect; nobody is.

Like I said, I am from wisconsin, and whole towns here drink. My question is, do we have the same understanding of the verb, and I don't mean that sarcastically. Whole towns here actually drink, and that is their primary hobby. I am having trouble trying to look at it from the outside, because I can't. I don't think people here even think about it in terms of 'abuse,' or that they even measure their general intake. I guess your asking me about a level of introspection that I don't think applies here ; that isn't the approach people have around here

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That isn't how it works around here, in Wisconsin. We have a huge bar culture. But we do have some alcoholics who just stick the house, like my dad did. We have social drinkers and anti-social drinkers

I'm aware. But this is what you said:

It's something that people do when the winters get long, and they are bored. And they do it in their houses when it gets down to -20, and their families have no escape

Indiana is basically the same way. It's a ton of churches and bars. Yeah, some people have problems. But most don't. Emphasizing responsible consumption is crucial.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

I'm aware. But this is what you said:

Really they just do it where they can. Sometimes people get stuck doing it in their houses by the weather here, but actually yeah, people actually do get out and do it in whatever weather.