Abortion as method is too outdated to be discussed

[Estro Felino]

Also, aside from enabling practitioners to impose their religious beliefs on everyone else, the US's for-profit healthcare system creates major systemic barriers for many people to access any sort of contraception that needs a prescription or is installed by a medical professional.

Yes, I understand...but in the US an abortion is much more expensive than the hormonal pill, taken regularly.

 

[man with breasts]

Abortion is rightly still an issue because people don't use contraception!

 

[☆Dreamwind☆]

I know a prostitute who lives next door.
She has never had an abortion in her entire life. How do you think she managed not to get pregnant with the work she does?

Maybe she doesn't discuss all of her medical procedures with everyone she knows? Maybe she has excellent luck and good birth control? Maybe she got herself a tubal ligation?

 

[Altfish]

You're right.
But I was speaking of medicine.
It really seems we are still like in the Middle Ages...given that so many people can't avoid unwanted pregnancies.
Hormonal pill, morning-after-pill...IUD...

I mean... prostitutes never get abortions and yet they can have up to 20 men a day.
How is that?

But some of those remedies are being banned, certainly the morning after pill is.
If 'sex' is your trade you make sure you are covered; for non sex workers it is accidents, mistakes, that catch women out, even a damaged condom.

 

[Tomef]

I believe that nowadays abortion has gained an oversized importance in the political debate, especially in the ongoing presidential campaign.

After all, Trump has stated that abortion can be a solution to extreme and rare cases, and each state should determine those cases. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/tr...ned-by-us-states-gives-no-details-2024-04-08/

Nevertheless I believe we are not in the seventies any more. We are in the twenties of the 21st century and medicine has made giant leaps, since then.
Nowadays, it's almost impossible to have an unwanted pregnancy with all the countless contraception methods available in wealthy countries like the US.

So...really...I am not understanding why abortion is still an issue.
I consider it something very, very outdated as method and as topic.

American conservatives feel some need to prove they are the ‘good guys’. Faced with addressing their own rot, identifying some issue they can all get self-righteously worked up about is a very effective avoidance strategy.

 

[Estro Felino]

Maybe she doesn't discuss all of her medical procedures with everyone she knows? Maybe she has excellent luck and good birth control? Maybe she got herself a tubal ligation?

I assure you we Italians are very open about sex. We tell everything.

No...she has been taking the pill since she was 15. Now she is in her 40s...so...

 

[Stevicus]

Greater that what? Just how much "prominence" to you think is warranted?

Greater than a lot of other issues which might affect a larger percentage of the population. An interesting thing about abortion as a political issue is that, even though people fight like cats and dogs over it, it has absolutely zero effect on the power structure or the economic disparities in this country. It seems fairly obvious that the ruling class is stoking this issue to keep the public distracted from other issues.

 

[Estro Felino]

Greater than a lot of other issues which might affect a larger percentage of the population. An interesting thing about abortion as a political issue is that, even though people fight like cats and dogs over it, it has absolutely zero effect on the power structure or the economic disparities in this country. It seems fairly obvious that the ruling class is stoking this issue to keep the public distracted from other issues.

Exactly.
Free universal healthcare should be the most discussed topic in politics.
And yet people demonstrate in the street for abortion.

 

[Estro Felino]

Maybe you can understand, then, the perspectives from those who want the freedom to choose given that people are actively trying to take more and more of their freedoms away. Maybe this is why it's becoming a bigger issue to people in this day and age

Is it normal that a 12 year old child speaks of abortion before the WV legislature?
At 12 I used to play with dolls!

 

[crossfire]

I believe that nowadays abortion has gained an oversized importance in the political debate, especially in the ongoing presidential campaign.

After all, Trump has stated that abortion can be a solution to extreme and rare cases, and each state should determine those cases. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/tr...ned-by-us-states-gives-no-details-2024-04-08/

Nevertheless I believe we are not in the seventies any more. We are in the twenties of the 21st century and medicine has made giant leaps, since then.
Nowadays, it's almost impossible to have an unwanted pregnancy with all the countless contraception methods available in wealthy countries like the US.

So...really...I am not understanding why abortion is still an issue.
I consider it something very, very outdated as method and as topic.

Well, to start with, some of the draconian laws that have been implimented by some states are driving the OB/GYN's to other states, leaving women's health care deserts in those areas, where women won't be able to get contraception, etc.

 

[Estro Felino]

Well, to start with, some of the draconian laws that have been implimented by some states are driving the OB/GYN's to other states, leaving women's health care deserts in those areas, where women won't be able to get contraception, etc.

All right.
But the prudish approach is self-detrimental.
Talking about abortion as if women were victims...and as if they were all got pregnant by the Holy Spirit.

I am really disheartened by all this Puritanism: women get pregnant because they engage in sex without contraception...
And contraception does work because so many women have never got pregnant in their entire life.

 

[crossfire]

All right.
But the prudish approach is self-detrimental.
Talking about abortion as if women were victims...and as if they were all got pregnant by the Holy Spirit.

No one is claiming this.

I am really disheartened by all this Puritanism: women get pregnant because they engage in wild sex without contraception...
An contraception does work because so many women have never got pregnant in their entire life.

Speaking of Puritanism, the irony meter just exploded.

Before there was contraception, there were also women who have never gotten pregnant their entire lives as well.

 

[Estro Felino]

No one is claiming this.

Speaking of Puritanism, the irony meter just exploded.

Before there was contraception, there were also women who have never gotten pregnant their entire lives as well.

Perfect.
So don't you think that the solution would be to implement a free universal healthcare system providing women for all the instruments available by medicine?
Sex education, consultories, free contraception, and also free medical assistance.

 

[crossfire]

Perfect.
So don't you think that the solution would be to implement a free universal healthcare system providing women for all the instruments available by medicine?
Sex education, consultories, free contraception, and also free medical assistance.

LOL! I cannot see that happening in the areas where abortion is banned. They won't even consider it. The mantra repeated there: "Why should I have to pay for her contraception?"

 

[Estro Felino]

LOL! I cannot see that happening in the areas where abortion is banned. They won't even consider it. The mantra repeated there: "Why should I have to pay for her contraception?"

This obsession with money....
We all will die...and money will stay...
For God's sake: considering the common good something spiritual all people benefit from.

 

[Stevicus]

Exactly.
Free universal healthcare should be the most discussed topic in politics.
And yet people demonstrate in the street for abortion.

When I was in school and in debate class, there were usually three classic topics among which we could choose for debate: Capital punishment, gun control, and abortion. The nature of these issues is such that, no matter what side an individual takes or what side society takes, the upper classes are not threatened or affected one bit.

 

[Estro Felino]

When I was in school and in debate class, there were usually three classic topics among which we could choose for debate: Capital punishment, gun control, and abortion. The nature of these issues is such that, no matter what side an individual takes or what side society takes, the upper classes are not threatened or affected one bit.

Exactly.
They control discussion and debate.

 

[Valjean]

Much of the brouhaha over abortion here in the states is strategic. Few people have the knowledge, interest or attention span to tackle serious issues of policy, but if you can convince the public that it's under threat or being exploited, you can generate fear and insecurity,
Frightened, insecure people become infantalized, and are only too willing to roll over and submit to a strong, authoritarian leader.

Politics, it seems to me, has increasingly relied on issues of propriety, religion, or lifestyle to generate fear and insecurity. Leaders then jump onto the bandwagon, feign concern and outrage over these manufactured issues, then confidently assert that they have a fix.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I know a prostitute who lives next door.
She has never had an abortion in her entire life. How do you think she managed not to get pregnant with the work she does?

I suspect she's on the pill.
That has nothing to do with my point about the history of the abortion debate in America though.

 

[Soandso]

Is it normal that a 12 year old child speaks of abortion before the WV legislature?
At 12 I used to play with dolls!

At 12 I was dropping acid, smoking PPC laced weed, and getting into the worst kind of trouble I'd ever gotten into in my entire life

What's "normal" or not is kind of irrelevant, imo. What I care far more about is what kind of future we can provide our children