Abortion - is it wrong?

[Alceste]

oh really?

That is for weeks 9-16.

Hmm... Wikipedia does not say when it develops more, but I still proved you wrong in your claim that they do not come till' later on.

I cannot comprehend how people can so callously consider a fetus just a bunch of cells that has no right to a shot at life. It's sad but a good number of abortions are not necessary in the U.S., but are seen as an alternative to getting rid of a baby that someone doesn't want.

It's as if no one ever considers adoption agencies. Many people who can't have them because of medical reasons want babies.

Most abortions happen at 5 to 8 weeks. So, that's OK then right?

Glad we cleared that up.

 

[theirreverentconcubine]

I agree.
However, I understand that such appeal to emotion statements are solely to elicit emotional reactions.


I have to disagree.
Not only with his beliefs, but also with your saying that they are not his beliefs.

Good point. "Troll feeder" must be a form of atheism. Formal philosophy somehow avoided my American education, so I must learn where I can.

 

[jasonwill2]

I cannot comprehend how people can so carelessly declare that a clump of cells should be given full legal and constitutional rights.

.....

I understand.
You are here advertising for the adoption business.
Never mind any counter points that might interfere with your commission checks.

And to think I thought to myself today "when I get back to the forums I should apologize for my attitude"...

I get it though, a less developed person is less equal in your eyes.

And a "pile" of cells is still life, whether or not you want to recognize that. How can they have the same rights? It's an inherent human right to have the freedom to life. I strongly hold that unless it is to save another life, aborting a child is a crime against humanity.

I base my definition of "life" on the scientific definition, which includes unborn young. If you seriously consider them "just a pile of cells" I seriously hope then that you are referring to the first month or so.

 

[idea]

As simple as this - there are those who cherish and honor life, and those who do not.

 

[jasonwill2]

As simple as this - there are those who cherish and honor life, and those who do not.

I am inclined to support that statement up to a certain point, but this Satanist must agree with the Christian at least in the capacity of the immediate and generalized context of the topic at hand. (in other words I agree with the statement in general and how it applies to the last few comments, but not in all situations that abortion finds itself in).

I might keep up with the next page or so, but I'm not going to say much more. I've said my stance on it, going into it more would just end up with me using more words to say the same thing I have already said.

 

[Sonic247]

See it takes a while for a girl to even know she is pregnant... and even if she finds out really early they will probably make her wait a bit to make the operation easier. So the earliest is like 6-8 weeks... if you look at a six to 8 week embryo- that thing is pretty developed. And that's the earliest! i remember Oprah- "We used to have to use coat hangers." I was pretty mad... You didn't have to do anything, you could have the baby and just live with a little public ridicule, who care what people think. It's better to have the world against you then your own conscience.

 

[Averroes]

Question---

At what point do men have rights on the abortion issue concerning the life or death of the fetus? I mean, hypothetically speaking if my woman doesn't want the child but I do and she wants to abort, is my word simply moot cause its her $%&*# and not mine? I mean, the child is half my DNA, yet she plops it out of her vaginal canal, so even though its half my DNA but because it plops out of her does that make my concerns moot?

 

[Alceste]

See it takes a while for a girl to even know she is pregnant... and even if she finds out really early they will probably make her wait a bit to make the operation easier. So the earliest is like 6-8 weeks... if you look at a six to 8 week embryo- that thing is pretty developed. And that's the earliest! i remember Oprah- "We used to have to use coat hangers." I was pretty mad... You didn't have to do anything, you could have the baby and just live with a little public ridicule, who care what people think. It's better to have the world against you then your own conscience.

That is not the earliest. A non-surgical abortion is done at 5 weeks, and you can take a morning after pill immediately.

 

[Alceste]

Question---

At what point do men have rights on the abortion issue concerning the life or death of the fetus? I mean, hypothetically speaking if my woman doesn't want the child but I do and she wants to abort, is my word simply moot cause its her $%&*# and not mine? I mean, the child is half my DNA, yet she plops it out of her vaginal canal, so even though its half my DNA but because it plops out of her does that make my concerns moot?

I recommend sharing your opinion on the subject with your partner. I'm sure she'll consider your views.

But do you have the right to use your partner's body as your personal incubator in order to pad on your genetic material? No.

 

[blackout]

Question---

At what point do men have rights on the abortion issue concerning the life or death of the fetus? I mean, hypothetically speaking if my woman doesn't want the child but I do and she wants to abort, is my word simply moot cause its her $%&*# and not mine? I mean, the child is half my DNA, yet she plops it out of her vaginal canal, so even though its half my DNA but because it plops out of her does that make my concerns moot?

If you are not of like mind on the issue
you should not be having sex together.

And your description of pregnancy and labor as "plops it out of her vaginal canal"
shows a total lack of cognitive understanding on your part, regarding the whole process.
And certainly no empathy or deeper insight whatsoever.

You tend to speak of women, and their issues in a very belittling and disgruntled manner.
In general.

 

[Alceste]

If you are not of like mind on the issue
you should not be having sex together.

And your description of pregnancy and labor as "plops it out of her vaginal canal"
shows a total lack of cognitive understanding on your part, regarding the whole process.
And certainly no empathy or deeper insight whatsoever.

You speak of women, and their issues in a very belittling and disgruntled manner.
In general.

I agree.

 

[Sonic247]

That is not the earliest. A non-surgical abortion is done at 5 weeks, and you can take a morning after pill immediately.

Okay there is an exception, it's till pretty developed though, those things move fast. I'm not sure of the exact number, someone can call me on this if it's wrong, but I bet dolloars to donuts that at least 80 percent are after week 6.

 

[McBell]

I get it though, a less developed person is less equal in your eyes.

Your assumptions are nothing more than your assumptions.

And a "pile" of cells is still life, whether or not you want to recognize that. How can they have the same rights? It's an inherent human right to have the freedom to life. I strongly hold that unless it is to save another life, aborting a child is a crime against humanity.

So now you resort to strawmen.
I never once said nor even indicated that the clump of cells was not alive.

This false accusation is rather comical.
It shows you are not interested in anything other than your emotional reactions to what you think others have said.

Inherent right?
Says who?

You are free to strongly hold to whatever suits your fancy.
This even includes making stuff up and assigning your imaginary positions to other people.
Now if you want to actually discuss what was actually said, feel free to start at any time.

I base my definition of "life" on the scientific definition, which includes unborn young. If you seriously consider them "just a pile of cells" I seriously hope then that you are referring to the first month or so.

Again, your strawman is most convenient for your "argument" but has nothing to do with anything I said.

 

[McBell]

As simple as this - there are those who cherish and honor life, and those who do not.

I take it you only eat synthetic foods.
If not, you are a hypocrite.

 

[McBell]

Question---

At what point do men have rights on the abortion issue concerning the life or death of the fetus? I mean, hypothetically speaking if my woman doesn't want the child but I do and she wants to abort, is my word simply moot cause its her $%&*# and not mine? I mean, the child is half my DNA, yet she plops it out of her vaginal canal, so even though its half my DNA but because it plops out of her does that make my concerns moot?

Then I strongly suggest you talk to her about it BEFORE you get her pregnant.

 

[PolyHedral]

Question---

At what point do men have rights on the abortion issue concerning the life or death of the fetus? I mean, hypothetically speaking if my woman doesn't want the child but I do and she wants to abort, is my word simply moot cause its her $%&*# and not mine? I mean, the child is half my DNA, yet she plops it out of her vaginal canal, so even though its half my DNA but because it plops out of her does that make my concerns moot?

Yes. .

 

[Alceste]

Okay there is an exception, it's till pretty developed though, those things move fast. I'm not sure of the exact number, someone can call me on this if it's wrong, but I bet dolloars to donuts that at least 80 percent are after week 6.

It isn't "pretty developed" at 5 weeks. It's the size of a grain of rice and doesn't have a heart, brain or nervous system.

With your track record so far on factual claims, are you sure you want to stick with your made-up statistic? Why not look it up?

 

[Alceste]

For Sonic,
Facts on Induced Abortion in the United States

This lumps everything under 9 weeks together, but it's still better than just guessing, wouldn't you say?

I wish the anti-choice side (not you, Sonic, you've been decent) would take moment to contemplate their inflammatory rhetoric in light of the fact that 30% of written have had an abortion by age 45. You're not just calling abstract caricatures of immoral sociopaths that exist only in your own head "murderers", but your own neighbors, sisters, mothers, friends and co-workers. You're completely surrounded by "murderers" with no respect for human life!

Think about it.

 

[Songbird]

For Sonic,
Facts on Induced Abortion in the United States

This lumps everything under 9 weeks together, but it's still better than just guessing, wouldn't you say?

I wish the anti-choice side (not you, Sonic, you've been decent) would take moment to contemplate their inflammatory rhetoric in light of the fact that 30% of written have had an abortion by age 45. You're not just calling abstract caricatures of immoral sociopaths that exist only in your own head "murderers", but your own neighbors, sisters, mothers, friends and co-workers. You're completely surrounded by "murderers" with no respect for human life!

Think about it.

My miscarriages in my 20s prompted the change in my staunchly anti-abortion stance. I wrestled with guilt and feeling like a murderer; like there should have been something I could do to prevent miscarrying. My belief that prenatal life was sacred was somewhat mystical, and I was unaware of how extremely common miscarriage when the first one occurred.

Clearly I hadn't given much thought to my views at the time, but since then I've wondered how many people held similar beliefs, and what (staunch) pro-lifers secretly truly think about women who miscarry. I was surprised to learn other women felt a kind of vague shame about miscarrying, despite knowing it wasn't their fault. I don't know if there's a connection between the pro-life arguments and the shame of miscarrying, but there was for me.

This is part of why I point out the statistics on miscarriage outnumbering those on abortion. Why insist on the sacredness of prenatal life? As long as I'm asking, why do pro-life arguments frequently equivocate the pro-choice stance with favoring some kind of barbaric, late-term abortion? I don't know a single person who advocates late-term abortions, and I favor restricting them after 12 weeks to medically necessary.

 

[espo35]

For Sonic,
Facts on Induced Abortion in the United States

This lumps everything under 9 weeks together, but it's still better than just guessing, wouldn't you say?

I wish the anti-choice side (not you, Sonic, you've been decent) would take moment to contemplate their inflammatory rhetoric in light of the fact that 30% of written have had an abortion by age 45. You're not just calling abstract caricatures of immoral sociopaths that exist only in your own head "murderers", but your own neighbors, sisters, mothers, friends and co-workers. You're completely surrounded by "murderers" with no respect for human life!


Think about it.

Argumentum ad populum

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In logic, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or most people believe it; it alleges: "If many believe so, it is so."