Abortion: The Gory Photos Are Real

[BUDDY]

What about the innocent children killed by war? Oops, too bad? Where is the Religious Right's outcry for these children? Your argument doesn't answer the question why some killing is OK and other killing (if that's what you believe it to be) is not.

I am sorry. I was under the impression that your first comparison was to military personel. As far as the children go, I am totally against the killing of the innocent and I disagree with any tactics that would put non-combatants (including children) at risk. The difference is that in the case of the unborn baby we have made it now legal to kill at the mothers discression. In any other instance of a mother killing her child, it is illegal already and therefore wrong. Most people would agree with that. However, as some would accuse Pro-Life folks of being hypocritical on this issue, we can do the same to Pro-Abortion advocates because we see no difference between a mother allowing someone to rip a child out of her womb, and a mother drowning her kids in the bath tub, while Pro-Abortion advocates do see a difference.

How far are pro life persons willing to go with this will they be willing to do what it takes? For if you are this convicted about pro life i urge you all to petition your local politition to make it a law that all pro life persons have to subsidise the government and take most of the orphans into their homes. And if you are not willing to do this well i guess you arent really too worried about the children that are already alive and suffering because of it. when does it become your mission and why does it seem to me that all of you drop this mission after the birth, should it not be a continueing mission? You should, after making a woman birth this child, continue your struggle for their rights and make life as comfortable for them as you can. Only fighting half the battle is morraly reprehensible.

Oh I don't think you are quite aware of the many things that people have done to answer these questions. Many independant organizations have openly offered women support to find someone to adopt their child and have offered help in paying for medical bills. There are also organizations our there that have openly contributed to orphans home and adoption agencies to encourage this. There is an overwhelming number of couples out there who want to adopt children, but have to wait for many years to do so because there just aren't many women who don't want there children, carrying there children to term.

So your answer is to regulate what a woman can and cannot do with, to or for her body when the question of when a fetus should have rights is not be answered to satisfation?

Why not? Society regulates what people can and can't do with their bodies all the time. I can't prostitute myself with my own body. I can't kill anyone using my body. I can't take illegal narcotics using my own body. I can't steal from you using my own body. This is about the worst argument in the world. From the beginning of the human foundation of societal laws, the purpose has been to limit human action in order to protect the whole of society. Why should abortion be any different?

 

[LordZer]

Oh I don't think you are quite aware of the many things that people have done to answer these questions. Many independant organizations have openly offered women support to find someone to adopt their child and have offered help in paying for medical bills. There are also organizations our there that have openly contributed to orphans home and adoption agencies to encourage this. There is an overwhelming number of couples out there who want to adopt children, but have to wait for many years to do so because there just aren't many women who don't want there children, carrying there children to term.

But are all of them doing it or is it merely a part of the pro life comunity doing it? and even if there are many doing it, these org. are not taking the children them selves they are donating to these children

 

[Green Gaia]

Why should abortion be any different?

Those laws you mentioned are in place for the good of society, to keep order. How is denying a woman control over her pregnancy for the good of society? Would a bunch more unwanted children running around be good?

That said, I think abortion is an awful thing and should be a last resort, but that women should have control over whether or not the can bring a child into the world.

I also have problem with the anti-choice argument because it's directly solely at women. Men are not held accountable for making unwanted babies. Women who choose to have an abortion are demonized and called names, but nothing is ever said about the men.

 

[jamaesi]

There is an overwhelming number of couples out there who want to adopt children, but have to wait for many years to do so because there just aren't many women who don't want there children, carrying there children to term.

They are other kids waiting to be adopted but looked over because they aren't babies.

 

[BUDDY]

But are all of them doing it or is it merely a part of the pro life comunity doing it? and even if there are many doing it, these org. are not taking the children them selves they are donating to these children

I certainly can't answer for everyone, but I know of many people who participate in this. But, to say that everyone who disagrees with it has to be willing to take a child into their home, is like saying anyone who agres with abortion has to participate in the abortion clinic shuttle service. It really makes no sense to say that because I am pro-life I have to volunteer to adopt a baby.

 

[BUDDY]

They are other kids waiting to be adopted but looked over because they aren't babies.

I was adopted when I was 11 years old and my best friend in the would was adopted when he was 8 years old, so try again.

Men are not held accountable for making unwanted babies.

A real man would be. All men should be.

 

[Jaymes]

EEWRED: I'd hazard a guess and say you and your friend were one of the exceptions. Many people look for healthy babies, not healthy children.

 

[jamaesi]

I was adopted when I was 11 years old and my best friend in the would was adopted when he was 8 years old, so try again.

Are you a minority or disabled in any way? They're usually the ones left in there. Most people want to adopt just babies and a lot of older children stay in the system until they are 18.

 

[johnnys4life]

Looked at the pictures. Those fetuses look like no human I've seen, more like aliens.

That's because they've been burned by saline solution, notice the blackened skin? A very horrendous and painful death, indeed. Is a person defined by how they look?

Have I ever adopted any unwanted kids? I am 24, so, not directly, not yet. Would I be any less right about defending their lives if I never did? And yes, I have taken care of unwanted kids whenever the opportunity arose. I will do so again in the future after we move.

 

[BUDDY]

My real parents died when I was young and I went to live with foster parents who eventually adopted me. They had also adopted my best friend and now brother, who I referred to earlier. I can't speak for all of us, but we keep in contact with many adopted children that have similar stories. The mere possibility of adoption is enough for me. But my opinions are not your opinions.

 

[Sunstone]

If one is opposed to abortion, then why not take a serious look at ways to reduce the number of abortions performed? For instance: wouldn't educating young people about the use of contraceptives help to reduce abortions?

 

[jamaesi]

That's because they've been burned by saline solution, notice the blackened skin? A very horrendous and painful death, indeed. Is a person defined by how they look?

I'm talking about fetuses in general, not saline aborted fetuses.

 

[Green Gaia]

If one is opposed to abortion, then why not take a serious look at ways to reduce the number of abortions performed? For instance: wouldn't educating young people about the use of contraceptives help to reduce abortions?

Good point, I agree with you. However, it has been my experience that most anti-choice people are also anti-sex education people. They don't want to talk about it or their kids to do it or to know anyting about that except that it's bad.

Doesn't make sense does it?

 

[Sunstone]

I was reading the other day that Dutch girls, who are well educated in the use of contraceptives, are seven times less likely to have an abortion than are American girls. The source for that tidbit was a columnist in the New York Times, and I don't know where he was getting his information from, but it agreed with other things I've read about the differences between American and European on this issue.

 

[Green Gaia]

That's amazing Sunstone. It baffles me that the anti-choice crowd isn't pushing sex education and contraceptive use.

 

[johnnys4life]

Those laws you mentioned are in place for the good of society, to keep order. How is denying a woman control over her pregnancy for the good of society? Would a bunch more unwanted children running around be good? .

Then you'll just have to explain to me how post Roe Vs. Wade society is any better than it was before. My research indicates the opposite is true. Child abuse rates have risen tremendously, divorce rates have risen, pregnancies out of wedlock have risen, especially among teens, teen suicide rates are at an all-time high, and women are still dying from "safe and legal" abortion.

That said, I think abortion is an awful thing and should be a last resort, but that women should have control over whether or not the can bring a child into the world. .

Then we think a lot a like. I am pro-choice only when it is a last resort to save a woman's life, that is never the case after viability. After viability, it is just as safe for the woman to have a c-section or to give birth naturally. The only difference between your philosophy and mine, is when it comes to abortion based on CHOICE, I believe the choice comes before she actually has sex. Before Roe VS. Wade, abortion was legal in the case of rape, and that is something a lot of people say for why the law should've been passed. She has a mouth. She can say no. If not, that is rape, and the man should get more than a slap on the wrist, which is all he's getting now. The average rapist spends only 7 years in prison. He gets right back out and does it again. That is WRONG, and I wish feminists would spend more time fighting that, and less time talking about abortion.

I believe that your womb IS part of the world. It isn't a different planet. And your argument is far to close to the argument that "a woman should be able to decide whether or not she is a mother" thus justifying infanticide. But if it is a woman's body, tell me this, what part of the THE WOMAN'S body is being aborted? Does she have two heads, two vaginas, 4 feet, 4 hands, 4 arms, 4 legs, or a penis?


When a man goes into an abortion clinic dragging a woman by the hair, and tells her that she has to have an abortion or else, I don't call that a choice. When a young girl is being raped by her dad, and he takes her to an abortionist to kill the child and save his butt, so that nobody can ask questions about it, I don't call that a choice. When a teenage girl is threatened to be kicked out by her parents if she doesn't have an abortion, just so they can save face and not be the parents of a teenage mom, I don't call that a choice. When a woman is unable to take care of her child because of a disability, and society tells her to have an abortion and she dies from it, I don't call that a choice. When a black woman is told by a prejudiced social worker that she can't raise her kid well enough, I don't call that a choice. When a man wants his child, and the woman doesn't, the abortion clinic tells him, you had a choice before you pulled down your pants. Why the double-standard?

I also have problem with the anti-choice argument because it's directly solely at women. Men are not held accountable for making unwanted babies. Women who choose to have an abortion are demonized and called names, but nothing is ever said about the men.

I am against rape. And I believe that if a woman gets pregnant, the man should be held liable. Many times men use abortion to keep from having to pay child support, they tell the woman it is for the best, and then leave when it's over. And she falls for it. I believe a child is BOTH parents' responsibility. The man needs to help take care of the child as best as he can. I have no sympathy for men who leave thier families. They are just as bad if not worse than murderers.

 

[Sunstone]

It baffles me too, Maize. I abhore abortion, although I'm pro-choice, and would like to see it reduced as much as possible. It seems that comprehensive sex education could do that. But, as you pointed out, the same crowd that is pro-life is often enough against comprehensive sex ed. It makes no more sense to me than it does to you.

 

[BUDDY]

If one is opposed to abortion, then why not take a serious look at ways to reduce the number of abortions performed? For instance: wouldn't educating young people about the use of contraceptives help to reduce abortions?

Great Point!!! I think we are all taking it seriously, that is why there is so much debate as to the best ways to teach it and where to teach it. I think we would all agree that the parents should be the one's to instruct their children, but there needs to be something in place in school that is broadbased and covers both contraception use and abstinece education. I just don't think abortion needs to taught as a form fo contraception. Other than that, I am in agreement about the imprtance of education for pregnancy prevention.

 

[johnnys4life]

I was reading the other day that Dutch girls, who are well educated in the use of contraceptives, are seven times less likely to have an abortion than are American girls. The source for that tidbit was a columnist in the New York Times, and I don't know where he was getting his information from, but it agreed with other things I've read about the differences between American and European on this issue.

We've had wide contraception availability and education for the past 40 years. Try again.

 

[Sunstone]

We've had wide contraception availability and education for the past 40 years. Try again.

That's an over simplification, Johnny's, as I think you know. The only time we've had widespread comprehenisive sexuality education was in the 90's. And during that time, teenage pregnancies declined. If we would pursue these policies as rigorously as the Europeans, then we might see something like their results.