Abortion: The Gory Photos Are Real

[johnnys4life]

If one is opposed to abortion, then why not take a serious look at ways to reduce the number of abortions performed? For instance: wouldn't educating young people about the use of contraceptives help to reduce abortions?

I wish that were true. In fact the opposite is true. Most people who have abortion simply consider it a form of contraception. If the condom breaks, they abort. If they forget to take the pill, they abort. In my experience, the girls who had the most abortions were the ones who had the lowest self-concept.

An old school friend of mine had 4 abortions and 3 kids out of wedlock. She knew quite well how to use a condom, of that I'm sure. I can't explain her actions other than that she was abused as a child, and that she had a lot of boyfriends.

Most women who have abortions are doing it because of method failure, and lack of support from thier friends, family, or significant other. According to a California State University study, 85% of women who aborted said they wanted to keep the child, and would've if they'd had more support or different financial situation. Why do we force women into doing something they don't want to do? Wouldn't the answer be to GIVE THEM the support they need? They looked to men to fulfill them, and when the man said he didn't want a child, or he was simply gone, they aborted. Maybe we should teach them to LOVE THEMSELVES AND CONSIDER THEMSELVES WORTHY WITH OR WITHOUT A MAN.

 

[johnnys4life]

I'm talking about fetuses in general, not saline aborted fetuses.

Well, that's what most of the pictures were of. And if you think looks define a person's worth, then I think that is pretty sad.

 

[Sunstone]

Maybe we should teach them to LOVE THEMSELVES AND CONSIDER THEMSELVES WORTHY WITH OR WITHOUT A MAN.

On that, I think we can agree. Too many girls are taught that pleasing boys will be their fulfillment.

 

[johnnys4life]

That's an over simplification, Johnny's, as I think you know. The only time we've had widespread comprehenisive sexuality education was in the 90's. And during that time, teenage pregnancies declined. If we would pursue these policies as rigorously as the Europeans, then we might see something like their results.

Started in the 70s and 80s. Before that there wasn't as much education, but birth control was readily available, and last time I looked, the directions are right on the package. It's not rocket science. I've only met 2 people who I KNOW had pre-maritial relations without anything, and we were friends long enough for me to know she knew all about birth control methods.

My personal feeling is that children are a natural, biological result of sex. If you absolutely don't want kids, don't have sex.

 

[johnnys4life]

I know adoption keeps getting brought up, and I should tell you, I am for adoption only when necessary. I think we should give women all the tools they need so that they don't have to resort to adoption or abortion. Most women do want to keep thier children on some level at least, when those maternal hormones kick in.

By and large, they give the child up so that they won't be "poor". I don't think that's right. I was raised poor, and I know one thing for sure, love is more important than money.

If you can make sure a woman has all the resources she needs to get an education, get a good job, and take care of her child, she will, with or without a man! And God bless her for trying. My friend Jen was a single mom at 19, and I love her to death as does her daughter, she eventually got married and now has a son and a good husband.

Here in America our definition of "poor" would baffle a good percentage of the world. I was raised on macaroni and ramen noodles, and I'm healthy as a horse, and wouldn't give up my life for anything.

 

[johnnys4life]

I want to adopt an orphan someday. I may also be a foster mother in a few years. My husband and I looked it up, and most of the foster kids waiting for a home are teenaged moms and pregnant teenagers! They got kicked out because they got pregnant! That ain't right. I would love to help someone like that out, if my husband agrees to. His biggest concern would be that she not be brining guys over and setting a bad example for our girl. I stayed a virgin till I met my husband, and so did he, and we're both very GLAD. It can be done! But I dont' think it's right to judge someone just because she's pregnant!!! She could've only had sex once for all we know, or even been raped! And someone who sleeps around all the time and isn't pregnat would give off no signs of it, so it isn't fair to judge anyone based solely on appearances.

It isn't a sin to be pregnant! We should help pregnant girls raise thier babies and quit telling them they cant' do it! I wish people would get over thinking that!

 

[Sunstone]

Great Point!!! I think we are all taking it seriously, that is why there is so much debate as to the best ways to teach it and where to teach it. I think we would all agree that the parents should be the one's to instruct their children, but there needs to be something in place in school that is broadbased and covers both contraception use and abstinece education. I just don't think abortion needs to taught as a form fo contraception. Other than that, I am in agreement about the imprtance of education for pregnancy prevention.

I think we have a lot of common ground here, EEWRED. At the very least, we both agree that education is key to reducing abortion rates.

 

[jamaesi]

And if you think looks define a person's worth, then I think that is pretty sad.

When did I ever say that?

I'm more likely to react to pictures of children suffering in Africa than pictures of fetuses.

 

[Green Gaia]

Then you'll just have to explain to me how post Roe Vs. Wade society is any better than it was before. My research indicates the opposite is true.

Well, of course that's what they're going to tell you to believe on the anti-choice websites. Safe and legal abortions are better than the back-alley abortions performed by whomever the woman can get to do it. You're very naive if you think outlawing legal abortions preformed by a profession is magically going to make them stop. Women have been terminating pregnancies all through history. Roe v. Wade didn't invent it. It's going to happen, let's make it safe at least.

Child abuse rates have risen tremendously, divorce rates have risen, pregnancies out of wedlock have risen, especially among teens, teen suicide rates are at an all-time high

Can you prove that any of that is caused solely by Roe v. Wade?

 

[jamaesi]

People die from all kinds of surgeries. It's a fact of medicine. I've had five, all of which I had to sign a paper that said "hey you might never wake up again after we start cutting, have fun kid!" Should we ban heart surgeries and transplants and the like because it could kill people?

 

[Lycan]

IMHO -
I believe that a woman's choice goes as far as if she chooses to open her legs, after that it is a matter of taking responsiblity for your actions.

(I am obviously not refering to rape, or any other uncontrollable circumstance.)

 

[jamaesi]

IMHO -
I believe that a woman's choice goes as far as if she chooses to open her legs, after that it is a matter of taking responsiblity for your actions.

Birth control fails sometimes. No one should be stuck with a responsiblity that huge unless they want it. I believe getting an early abortion is a way of taking responsibility.

 

[Lycan]

Birth control fails sometimes.

...and that is a known risk taken

No one should be stuck with a responsiblity that huge unless they want it.

...then they shouldn't put themselves in a situation where they know it could happen...

I believe getting an early abortion is a way of taking responsibility.

... so what is learned? That you don't have to be responsible for what you do, the risks you take?

 

[jamaesi]

By that logic, Lycan, people who get in car crashes shouldn't recieve medical attention. Driving can be dangerous and they are the ones who chose to be in that car, so they get whatever they deserve.

Using birth control shows responsibilty.

 

[Circle_One]

Most women who have abortions are doing it because of method failure, and lack of support from thier friends, family, or significant other. According to a California State University study, 85% of women who aborted said they wanted to keep the child, and would've if they'd had more support or different financial situation. Why do we force women into doing something they don't want to do? Wouldn't the answer be to GIVE THEM the support they need? They looked to men to fulfill them, and when the man said he didn't want a child, or he was simply gone, they aborted. Maybe we should teach them to LOVE THEMSELVES AND CONSIDER THEMSELVES WORTHY WITH OR WITHOUT A MAN.

I think the biggest part of this isn't that they don't love themselves, but that financially, most young, single mothers don't have the resources to have the child. Instead of offering them the teachings of self-worth, perhaps someone should start offering them the financial resources to be able to have these children.

I think we should give women all the tools they need so that they don't have to resort to adoption or abortion. Most women do want to keep thier children on some level at least, when those maternal hormones kick in.

By and large, they give the child up so that they won't be "poor". I don't think that's right. I was raised poor, and I know one thing for sure, love is more important than money.

Love is more important than money, but without a place to live, food to eat or clothes to wear, that child and his/her mother aren't going to be living very long. By and large, they give the child up so the child won't be "poor" not the mother, so the child won't have to be cold at night, so it won't have to wonder when the next time they will eat will be, so it won't have to wonder why they don't have a home.

If you can make sure a woman has all the resources she needs to get an education, get a good job, and take care of her child, she will, with or without a man!

I think you are 1)over simplifying how easy it is to give these women the resources they need and 2)jumping to the conclusions that the majority do it because they don't have a man.

I don't remember anyone jumping in with a handout or an offer to babysit so I could go to school and get a job when I had my son at 17 without the aid of his father.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

We've had wide contraception availability and education for the past 40 years. Try again.

Well then, by all means, let's just OUTLAW abortion, and that will solve all the ills that have become rampant due to Roe v Wade.
Or, here's an idea! If it's been tried and it isn't working, how about we have a little look at what apparently IS working in another country and see if we can figure out why their sex education is obviously so much more effective and modify what isn't working.

 

[Sunstone]

Or, here's an idea! If it's been tried and it isn't working, how about we have a little look at what apparently IS working in another country and see if we can figure out why their sex education is obviously so much more effective and modify what isn't working.

You'd think that was common sense.

 

[jamaesi]

The Gory Photos Are (not) Real

http://experts.about.com/q/338/1059236.htm

You can also see gruesome photos in medical textbooks. I'm looking at my 1997 edition of Williams Obstetrics, which shows on p. 986 what can happen as a result of erythroblastosis fetalis, a condition that occurs when the system of an Rh-negative mother produces antibodies to an antigen in the blood of an Rh-positive fetus which cross the placenta and destroy fetal blood cells. The photograph is of a "hydropic macerated stillborn infant." (Maceration is when dead tissue softens and decays after being in water.) The picture shows a very damaged baby with parts missing, its mouth open as if in pain, and skin damage and discoloration of the kind anti-abortion pictures claim is typical of saline abortions. Yet this is a picture of what can, sadly, happen naturally inside a woman's womb.


http://www.lifeandlibertyforwomen.org/truth_about_photos.html

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/files/portal/medicalinfo/abortion-the-silent-scream.xml

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/files/portal/webzine/ontherecord/otr-2003-archive-terrorism.xml


Propaganda.

 

[tearsofbezz8833]

We all know abortion is gross looking that why I never stare a dead, contorted fetus. But I know that should I ever get pregnant again my boyfreind and I can go and have an abortion no questions asked, I don't think God should stand in the way of a womans right to her own body. But hey if you get off looking at shredded dead babbies Go right ahead :jam: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

 

[Sunstone]

It's widely said that Latin American countries in which abortion is outlawed have some of the highest rates of abortion in the world. That is to say, outlawing abortion doesn't get rid of it, it just creates a demand for illegal abortions. I think that amounts to yet another reason why the best approach to reducing abortions might be a combination of contraceptive education and contraceptive availability.