Abortion

[mikkel_the_dane]

That's interesting.

You seem to like 'pregnant people' even though the majority of people can't get/aren't pregnant.

But seem to not like 'people with uteruses' even though its people with uteruses that can and do get pregnant.

Well, not all people with uteruses can get pregnant. But yes, I get the idea.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

He's talking about what you're doing here:
3 Why do you see the speck in your neighbour's eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye?
4 Or how can you say to your neighbour, "Let me take the speck out of your eye", while the log is in your own eye?
5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbour's eye.

Right, 'judge not' because God's judgement is already recorded in the Bible
We don't make personal-judgement motives of others - Luke 6:37
We don't judge if a person has made a SELFISH choice, that is between the person and God
Is the person's choice in harmony with Scripture as Jesus taught - John 5:30

 

[Pawpatrol]

Being a transgender male can get pregnant, pregnant people sounds better than pregnant men.
Pregnant people also sounds better than birthing people or people with uteruses.

You gotta be politically correct ya know

A transgender male is just that. Not a man.
It does because the latter doesn't make sense.
It does but the traditional "pregnant women" that has been used so far, sounds much better.

That's not true in North America. Here, you can't leave your inheritance to a fetus.

The only country that came up in my (admittedly quick) Googling where you can make a fetus an heir or life insurance beneficiary is India... though I'm not even sure if that point is accurate. I am not a lawyer and I'm definitely not an Indian lawyer.

Under Islamic law an unborn child inherits.

Yes, caring for a baby is much worse than death

Death≠giving birth.

Giving birth is hard, but caring for a child is harder.

A society that tells you that you have to have a child can also tell you that you cannot have a child. It is an overstepping of government power either way.

No one is suggesting that women are told they have to have a child (and when it comes to "you can't have a child" I'm pretty sure you've got that covered with all the 18+ yk), they just have to know when to have sexual intercourse and when to Not.

Most religions do not historically even think of it as having a soul yet.

Islam does after 120 days of pregnancy.

 

[Kathryn]

Well, I found this and actually read it, so here is the relevant part:
"
Unborn children and assisted reproduction
A child born after a decedent dies can still be included in the estate. The child must be in utero at the time of the decedent's death. In utero means developing in the womb, but not born yet.

The child can also be counted if it was created with assisted reproduction. The child will be included if:

The decedent is the biological parent of the child (the sperm or egg of the decedent was used to create the child),
The child is born within 36 months of the decedent's death,
The decedent consented in writing before death to be a legal parent of any potential child created from their sperm or egg, and
The administrator of the estate receives a written notice with a copy of the decedent's written consent within six months of the decedent's death."

What happens when I die without a will?

Explains how an estate is divided if a person dies without a will.

www.illinoislegalaid.org

So there are 2 different variants of unborn child in play and not just one. At least for this site.

Right. I read it too - couldn't remember the source but this one will do nicely.

 

[GoodAttention]

It has inheritance rights.

Please explain? Who, or what, is "it"?

 

[Kathryn]

Please explain? Who, or what, is "it"?

The unborn baby or fetus.

Oh, good lord, not again.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Islam does after 120 days of pregnancy.

Is it clear? That would not affect very many abortions in the US. Over 90% of all abortions in the US have occurred by then.

 

[GoodAttention]

The unborn baby or fetus.

Oh, good lord, not again.

As mentioned before, a person only has rights once they are born.

The will you mentioned talks about leaving an inheritence to an unborn human, but the right to do so goes to the one leaving it.

The unborn human can only exercise their claim to inheritence once they are born.

 

[Pawpatrol]

Is it clear? That would not affect very many abortions in the US. Over 90% of all abortions in the US have occurred by then.

It is in Sahih al-Bukhari 3208
"Narrated `Abdullah bin Mus'ud:

Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), the true and truly inspired said, "(The matter of the Creation of) a human being is put together in the womb of the mother in forty days, and then he becomes a clot of thick blood for a similar period, and then a piece of flesh for a similar period. Then Allah sends an angel who is ordered to write four things. He is ordered to write down his (i.e. the new creature's) deeds, his livelihood, his (date of) death, and whether he will be blessed or wretched (in religion). Then the soul is breathed into him. So, a man amongst you may do (good deeds till there is only a cubit between him and Paradise and then what has been written for him decides his behavior and he starts doing (evil) deeds characteristic of the people of the (Hell) Fire. And similarly a man amongst you may do (evil) deeds till there is only a cubit between him and the (Hell) Fire, and then what has been written for him decides his behavior, and he starts doing deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise.""

That doesn't mean abortion is allowed before that, in general — it isn't. But in exceptional cases it is allowed both before and after that.

 

[Kathryn]

As mentioned before, a person only has rights once they are born.

Nope, they can have rights before they are born. I know someone who is sitting in prison now because she caused the death of an unborn fetus or baby. Pretty sure it was already dead when it was born but if you like I can try to find out.

 

[GoodAttention]

Nope, they can have rights before they are born. I know someone who is sitting in prison now because she caused the death of an unborn fetus or baby. Pretty sure it was already dead when it was born but if you like I can try to find out.

I wouldn't call that a right, but that would be an interesting case since she would have had to be guilty of committing a crime.

If the unborn fetus had the "right to life", then its a different matter, even though criminalizing abortion with no exception is effectively the same outcome.

 

[Kathryn]

I wouldn't call that a right, but that would be an interesting case since she would have had to be guilty of committing a crime.

If the unborn fetus had the "right to life", then its a different matter, even though criminalizing abortion with no exception is effectively the same outcome.

I am not opposed to some exceptions for abortions.

It is an interesting case. Clearly the husband and father and mother and wife wanted this baby. It was not meant to be, apparently.

 

[GoodAttention]

I am not opposed to some exceptions for abortions.

It is an interesting case. Clearly the husband and father and mother and wife wanted this baby. It was not meant to be, apparently.

Please find out more. Which state is this in?

 

[Argentbear]

A transgender male is just that. Not a man.

A trans man is a trans man whether you like it or not.

It does because the latter doesn't make sense.
It does but the traditional "pregnant women" that has been used so far, sounds much better.

You opinion and you are entitled to it but others have different opinions and they are just as valid as yours

Under Islamic law an unborn child inherits.

Only if he (can't be female) is born alive and lives for a period of time, possibly a months.

Death≠giving birth.

Giving birth is hard, but caring for a child is harder.

I'm guessing that you have not done either of these things

No one is suggesting that women are told they have to have a child (and when it comes to "you can't have a child" I'm pretty sure you've got that covered with all the 18+ yk), they just have to know when to have sexual intercourse and when to Not.

Recently a 10 year old girl in Ohio was raped and became pregnant. State law forbid an abortion and forbid taking her to a place where she could haven an abortion. So yes she was being told she would have to have that child.

Islam does after 120 days of pregnancy.

And traditionally Christianity held that a soul didn't enter a body until birth when the first breath is drawn

 

[Kathryn]

Please find out more. Which state is this in?

Texas.

Recently a 10 year old girl in Ohio was raped and became pregnant. State law forbid an abortion and forbid taking her to a place where she could haven an abortion. So yes she was being told she would have to have that child.

All I know is that abortion is legal in Ohio. Hey, I live here. It's been legal since 2023.

 

[Argentbear]

Texas.

All I know is that abortion is legal in Ohio. Hey, I live here. It's been legal since 2023.

Yes the people of Ohio voted for medical rights for women in 2023 but prior to that the conservative legislature and the republican governor enacted laws restricting abortion access following the Supreme court ruling on Roe v. Wade.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Texas.

All I know is that abortion is legal in Ohio. Hey, I live here. It's been legal since 2023.

And how did that come about?

Yes the people of Ohio voted for medical rights for women in 2023 but prior to that the conservative legislature and the republican governor enacted laws restricting abortion access following the Supreme court ruling on Roe v. Wade.

Yes.

BTW, the Wikipedia entry features the following infuriating quote ...

In April 2023, the head of Cincinnati Right to Life, Laura Strietmann, commented that the girl should have been forced to give birth, explaining that although "a pregnancy might have been difficult on a 10-year-old body, a woman’s body is designed to carry life," and that abortion rights should not be brought to a public vote.[23] Despite Strietmann's argument, a vote was held in November 2023 which amended the Constitution of Ohio to protect abortion rights. [emphasis added - JS]​

 

[Kathryn]

And how did that come about?



Yes.

BTW, the Wikipedia entry features the following infuriating quote ...

In April 2023, the head of Cincinnati Right to Life, Laura Strietmann, commented that the girl should have been forced to give birth, explaining that although "a pregnancy might have been difficult on a 10-year-old body, a woman’s body is designed to carry life," and that abortion rights should not be brought to a public vote.[23] Despite Strietmann's argument, a vote was held in November 2023 which amended the Constitution of Ohio to protect abortion rights. [emphasis added - JS]​

Yes, the vote happened after April of 2023. It was via a vote I believe. I didn't live here then so I'm not sure.

The very first line of the Wikipedia article about abortion in Ohio states:

Abortion in Ohio is legal up to the point of fetal viability as a result of abortion rights being placed into the Ohio State Constitution.

Abortion in Ohio - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Kathryn]

Yes the people of Ohio voted for medical rights for women in 2023 but prior to that the conservative legislature and the republican governor enacted laws restricting abortion access following the Supreme court ruling on Roe v. Wade.

What I know is that it's legal now and has been since 2023. So for about a year it was not legal But it's been legal now for about a year.

 

[SkepticThinker]

What you mean is, you wouldn't like to give them rights. By the way, how would you feel about a pregnant woman using heroin while pregnant?

A baby does not need the mother's love to live, actually. (Mothers have many responsibilities and as important as love is, I think it is over emphasized while other responsibilities are neglected) a baby needs to be taken care of. One can take care of a baby even if he/she doesn't love the baby.

As for the obligation of fulfilling the basic needs of the baby, they are on the mother, and if she fails, the baby is rightly taken away from her. She can give her baby away also if she knows she won't be fulfilling those rights. But a child is not taken away from the carer just because he/she doesn't love the baby.

That's how you raise a sociopath.