About that Gaza flotilla...

[England my lionheart]

Yes, it is safe to assume. Considering I looked at the footage and 2 minutes into the scene it is clear that as the helicopter hovers over the ship, there are shots fired, before commandos repel down.

So what's surprising to me is that you are using edited videos posted by the IDF designed to save face and try and hide the fact that what occurred on the ships was a direct result of illegal actions carried out by the Israeli military.

Gaza flotilla attack: activist releases new footage | World news | guardian.co.uk

You article is also wrong in the simplest of terms in death count. The total number killed in the raid was nine not ten peace activists.

OK lets say all you say is true,what action should be taken against Israel?

 

[LuisDantas]

Internation supervision of their military operations might be a good one to suggest.

But I really doubt it will be proposed, much less accepted. Unfortunately, at this point in time no government much bothers following UN directives.

 

[England my lionheart]

Internation supervision of their military operations might be a good one to suggest.

But I really doubt it will be proposed, much less accepted. Unfortunately, at this point in time no government much bothers following UN directives.

It takes the UN months to decide whether to have their Coffee break at 10 or 11 AM when they are in session,there should be a UN presence there though overseeing security,alas like you i do not think it will never happen,i doubt that Hamas would accept it anyway

 

[Bismillah]

Shifting the topic back at Israel, that would be a question for international policy makers wouldn't it? However I think whatever the decision, it should wait until the peace talks conclude. It would be imprudent to give Israel an alibi to cancel the negotiations early.

I believe strongly that the U.N would be powerless to do anything, it is clear Israel does not and never will recognize the U.N's rulings or international law. Small things like American politician's disapproval, especially by upper echelon Israel supporters like Clinton would be progress. The ultimate goal would be that if Israel continued to flaunt international consensus and continued committing illegal crimes then a unity opposition, similar to pre-apartheid S. Africa, would at least put a pressure for a resolution of this long standing conflict.

The simplest way? A sincere approach to land for peace by both sides.

 

[England my lionheart]

I think after 60 years of needless bloodshed everybody has given up on peace,you say Israel doesn't recognize UN rulings but neither does Palestine

 

[Bismillah]

I think after 60 years of needless bloodshed everybody has given up on peace,you say Israel doesn't recognize UN rulings but neither does Palestine

It is only when people give up on peace that peace is impossible.

Israel is a country Palestine is not, your claim is false.

 

[England my lionheart]

It is only when people give up on peace that peace is impossible.

Israel is a country Palestine is not, your claim is false.

I think my claim stands,i think Palestine have been dumped on from a great height by the ideaology of the Muslim Brotherhood and it cannot dig itself out,Palestine could have gained statehood years ago.

 

[Bismillah]

No it's not. Palestinians are a greatly divided people that aren't charecterized by just one belief. Do you have proof that one entity of one group is solely responsible for the impediment to the peace process.

Either way we are digressing. This thread is related to the modern world. Since we are in agreement that Israel's actions were wrong how does this affect the future status of Gaza the West Bank and the creation of Palestine. This was supposed to be an emphasis on modern times, not a blame game of others in the past.

 

[arimoff]

Internation supervision of their military operations might be a good one to suggest.

But I really doubt it will be proposed, much less accepted. Unfortunately, at this point in time no government much bothers following UN directives.

Keep dreaming. Send them to Brazil.

Send them to Georgia, Kazakhstan, Darfur, N. Korea and so on, they need them more.

Israel doesn't need more militants, they got a full Gaza of them.

 

[Bismillah]

Nice red herring.

 

[Rakhel]

Israel agreed to UN Resolution 1701. They have kept to that resolution. The other side has not and the UN has done nothing to ensure that it has. If the UN cannot uphold their own resolutions and put the power that they supposedly have behind their resolutions, why should anything they say be believed?

 

[Bismillah]

Actually neither side has kept to the resolution and what do you expect the U.N to do. Peacekeepers were never expected to barge into Lebanon and tackle Hezbollah head on. It was the job of the Lebanese government to see to that. However, this is deflection of the topic on hand is out of context of the thread: the illegal use of force and the resulting killing of nine peace activists.

 

[Rakhel]

Actually no it is not.
Everyone expects the big bad UN to do a job and pronounce justice on the wrong doers, then pronounce a sentence, then carry that sentence out.
Well the UN makes it judgement call and then sits back on its hands while their opinions to be up held by only one of the two parties involved while the other runs amok crying 'I'm the victim."
Why should the UN have the only say in justice when it can't judge itself?

 

[Bismillah]

No one expects the U.N to do anything including Israel, which has repeatedly flouted international law. Everyone knows that the U.N has no way to enforce its decisions, that is left up to the parties involved. Not to "carry out the sentence".

Well the UN makes it judgement call and then sits back on its hands while their opinions to be up held by only one of the two parties involved

Israel declined to give their side of the story. What do they have to hide? It would seem that given the intense public backlash against Israel considering this attack, they would have wanted to present some evidence that revealed their perspective of the attacks. If one party declines to participate, then the only option is to look at the evidence provided and form an opinion off that. Examinations of the victims and footage of the attack clearly demonstrates who was at fault.

the other runs amok crying 'I'm the victim."

What the hell do you call systematic execution of defenseless peace activists and multiple bullet wounds in the back? Justice?

 

[England my lionheart]

No it's not. Palestinians are a greatly divided people that aren't charecterized by just one belief. Do you have proof that one entity of one group is solely responsible for the impediment to the peace process.

Either way we are digressing. This thread is related to the modern world. Since we are in agreement that Israel's actions were wrong how does this affect the future status of Gaza the West Bank and the creation of Palestine. This was supposed to be an emphasis on modern times, not a blame game of others in the past.

Whoa,when i said "lets say your are right" i didn't mean you were

 

[Bismillah]

Whoa,when i said "lets say your are right" i didn't mean you were

Seeing as your evidence is outdated, incomplete, and fabricated I took it to mean that I am right. Unless you have anything else to add?

 

[England my lionheart]

Seeing as your evidence is outdated, incomplete, and fabricated I took it to mean that I am right. Unless you have anything else to add?

All the evidence is incomplete isn't it and Hamas and its supporters are very adept at fabrication,it will be interesting when thereal truth emerges,well thats if it ever does.

 

[Bismillah]

All the evidence is incomplete isn't it and Hamas and its supporters are very adept at fabrication,it will be interesting when thereal truth emerges,well thats if it ever does.

No, no it's not. The evidence presented is not incomplete, in fact it is conclusive of the events that occurred on during the attacks. What is missing is any evidence that justifies Israel's actions, which is a fault of Israel, which may full well be because such evidence does not exist.

What is interesting is that you are now accusing Hamas of conjuring up evidence that was found by an international inquiry! It is also interesting that the "truth" will only come to light if something pro-Israeli comes up. Otherwise it is all a conspiracy

I'm not sure what more you want when there are video records of soldiers firing onto the crowd, unprovoked from their helicopters. When their are eye witnesses stating that the IDF was disproportionate and that they attacked those who were not even resiting, including those who are not Muslim because like it or not I'm sure those types of prejudices and thoughts exist. When testing of the corpses revealed that the activists were shot while lying on the ground or multiple close bullet wounds in the back of activists. When soldiers whose weapons were taken from them were taken to a doctor, who as a part of the flotilla, and received medical treatment. Something that goes against the mob mentality images that the IDF posted on their videos. Everything goes against the grain of Israel's claims.

In fact the only association between Israel and evidence has been that of their attempts to obstruct, hide, or discredit it.

 

[kai]

No one expects the U.N to do anything including Israel, which has repeatedly flouted international law. Everyone knows that the U.N has no way to enforce its decisions, that is left up to the parties involved. Not to "carry out the sentence".

Israel declined to give their side of the story. What do they have to hide? It would seem that given the intense public backlash against Israel considering this attack, they would have wanted to present some evidence that revealed their perspective of the attacks. If one party declines to participate, then the only option is to look at the evidence provided and form an opinion off that. Examinations of the victims and footage of the attack clearly demonstrates who was at fault.

What the hell do you call systematic execution of defenseless peace activists and multiple bullet wounds in the back? Justice?

Abibi They declined to cooperate with this investigation because the organisation conducting it condemned Israel before they even started the investigation now i dont know about you but that doesnt seem impartial to me..
Israel is however cooperating with the other UN investigation instigated by Ban Ki Moon.

 

[YmirGF]

What the hell do you call systematic execution of defenseless peace activists and multiple bullet wounds in the back? Justice?

Oddly, they did not appear particularly "defenseless". I wonder why that is? Could it be that they weren't really "peace activists" at all?