Abrahamic Faiths: If Jesus wasn't the messiah. Who was he?

[Unification]

No. The Christian scriptures may mean something to you, but the Jewish scriptures are the only ones I recognize as truth.

I recognize the Hebrew written scriptures as truth also.

 

[Unification]

No. The Christian scriptures may mean something to you, but the Jewish scriptures are the only ones I recognize as truth.

Besides, it's the "Christian" who made the concept of the "Christian" scriptures via power, and money. If Jesus walked into 99% percent of Christian church buildings, they'd laugh at him, judge him, and deem him a heretic.

They are not "the Christian" scriptures in other words.

 

[Tumah]

Solomon's temple was built... Within his head, heart, and body.

Honestly, do you really think I'm going to respond to these posts?
I get it. You want to reinterpret everything to make it fit with what you believe is correct, to deal with issues that you believe are in error. I disagree with your basis, so I'm not going to argue every point that extends from that.

 

[Flankerl]

 

[Unification]

Honestly, do you really think I'm going to respond to these posts?
I get it. You want to reinterpret everything to make it fit with what you believe is correct, to deal with issues that you believe are in error. I disagree with your basis, so I'm not going to argue every point that extends from that.

You just responded friend, didn't you?

What is "belief" for you is knowing for another.

No need to argue, this isn't about you or I. I genuinely care for you. Defend the "points" then. No need to tell another their intent.

Essentially, if I'm viewing the scriptures literally... I would need 150,000+ men, no tools, almost 2 million pounds of gold, and 7 years to build a literal building the size of about a tennis court? This is what "God" cares for, external physical buildings made from billions of dollars?

Then this literal temple building is what makes me holy, have a pure head and heart, and have great wisdom and knowledge of God?

Yet it's "spiritual" truth that one is concerned with?

 

[Tumah]

You just responded friend, didn't you?

What is "belief" for you is knowing for another.

No need to argue, this isn't about you or I. I genuinely care for you. Defend the "points" then. No need to tell another their intent.

Essentially, if I'm viewing the scriptures literally... I would need 150,000+ men, no tools, almost 2 million pounds of gold, and 7 years to build a literal building the size of about a tennis court? This is what "God" cares for, external physical buildings made from billions of dollars?

Then this literal temple building is what makes me holy, have a pure head and heart, and have great wisdom and knowledge of God?

Yet it's "spiritual" truth that one is concerned with?

I don't know what you are trying to say here.
Have a nice Saturday.

 

[Harmonious]

Besides, it's the "Christian" who made the concept of the "Christian" scriptures via power, and money. If Jesus walked into 99% percent of Christian church buildings, they'd laugh at him, judge him, and deem him a heretic.

Oddly, I feel that if he were to walk into a synagogue today, he might be surprised and apologetic that he missed out on so much.

They are not "the Christian" scriptures in other words.

Yes, what you think of as the "New Testament" is most definitively Christian scriptures.

 

[Harmonious]

I recognize the Hebrew written scriptures as truth also.

Interesting. I'm willing to bet, however, that you've chosen to ignore quite a lot of the truth God commanded in Leviticus. And a lot else, besides.

 

[roger1440]

I have been wondering about this for some time now.
If Jesus wasn't the messiah could he still be Christ. Like Abraham or Moses for example.
I would really like to hear a Jewish perspective on this.
And logician assume he was alive.

The way you had phrased your question Jesus must have existed. There isn’t enough evidence to prove or disprove the existence of Jesus. The most I will commit to is that Jesus might have existed.

Who or what is the Messiah? Is the Messiah a real flesh and blood Jewish guy? Is the Messiah the Jews collectively? It depends on who you ask.

What is the message of the canonical gospels? Should they be taken as literal or allegory? Who has the authority to decide how to interpret them? Where did they get this authority?

Should we limit the message of Jesus to the canonical gospels? There are at least 12 known gospels.

Entire books have been written on what you may have thought is a simple question.

 

[Unification]

Interesting. I'm willing to bet, however, that you've chosen to ignore quite a lot of the truth God commanded in Leviticus. And a lot else, besides.

We shouldn't cast lots, but if you'd like to, let's discuss the laws.

Name me 5 laws you're willing to bet that I don't keep.

 

[Harmonious]

We shouldn't cast lots, but if you'd like to, let's discuss the laws.

Name me 5 laws you're willing to bet that I don't keep.

1) Kashrut (dietary laws), and all that entails.
2) Shatnez (not mixing wool and linen), and all that entails.
3) Shabbat, and all that entails.
4) Reciting Grace after meals.
5) Guarding your tongue from evil speech, and all that entails.

While four of the five of these only pertain to Jews, I'm certain you don't do them. While the fifth is a good idea for anyone and everyone, I'm sure you don't specifically go out of your way to make sure not to violate this.

 

[Deidre]

What we all have been led to believe about Jesus, is most likely not who he was at all, if he even existed. How much time has been wasted in my life, wondering and researching the cast of characters of a potentially fictional story. Man, imagine if the world put its collective head together and tried to find answers to real life problems instead of seeking answers to imaginary ones.

 

[CMike]

I have been wondering about this for some time now.
If Jesus wasn't the messiah could he still be Christ. Like Abraham or Moses for example.
I would really like to hear a Jewish perspective on this.
And logician assume he was alive.

Frankly, he was a person who attempted to take away Jews from following their G-D.

He was pretty opposite of Avraham or Moses.

 

[CMike]

Christ is merely the Anglicised version of the Greek translation of the Hebrew word also rendered in English as messiah. Hence, the two are synonyms and writing Christ Jesus is exactly the same in meaning as writing Jesus the Messiah.

James

Messiach simply means annointed.

 

[CMike]

Resurrection occurs within.

The Rabbi's taught lies, an external God, a God in the sky condemning and bringing wrath on anyone who didn't abide or believe in their traditions and doctrines of meer man.
Sounds like many pastors and priests in Christianity also.

Doing things in vain, outward works of literal festivals when the feasts all occur within, the altar of God is built within, the animal being sacrificed is the carnality of the human. The house of God and tabernacle of God is within. Spiritual. Yet all done of vain meaningless outward works of the fleshly, natural human.

It appears you have a deep misunderstanding of Judaism.

 

[CMike]

Manna in the desert is not literal food coming from the literal sky in the literal desert.[/QUOTE]
Yeah...it was.

 

[CMike]

The idea is the destruction of the temple(human mind and heart) left empty and desolate due to one's own ways and will and vanity, one being brought low and humbled, removed from their own throne and built up in God.

Another one who thinks he knows Judaism better than the Jews ...

 

[Deidre]

Frankly, he was a person who attempted to take away Jews from following their G-D.

He was pretty opposite of Avraham or Moses.

I've never heard anyone ever put it like this. Finally, a refreshing view of Jesus! Even if is merely opinion, it is still quite interesting.

 

[CMike]

I've never heard anyone ever put it like this. Finally, a refreshing view of Jesus! Even if is merely opinion, it is still quite interesting.

Avraham and Moses tried to bring people toward G-D and his laws. Jesus tried to take Jews astray of their G-D.

 

[Unification]

1) Kashrut (dietary laws), and all that entails.
2) Shatnez (not mixing wool and linen), and all that entails.
3) Shabbat, and all that entails.
4) Reciting Grace after meals.
5) Guarding your tongue from evil speech, and all that entails.

While four of the five of these only pertain to Jews, I'm certain you don't do them. While the fifth is a good idea for anyone and everyone, I'm sure you don't specifically go out of your way to make sure not to violate this.

They are for all humans. Not a particular heritage. It's not a "how to" outward list for vain humanity. One is already born with the moral law code (law of thy mother) One doesn't even need scripture, it just becomes a golden calf if one allows it to, especially one who has no idea what the spiritual message is behind it. This would define "God" as a respector of persons, and not taming the tongue. The Lord your God is one.

Everything in scriptures, one perceives as literal objects and happenings... Creating and defining God in an "object" or "image" or "making an object." When all of the objects are metaphors and allegorical for things not seen, spiritual. Which are all WITHIN the human body. What all of mankind have in common.

1. Dietary laws have nothing to do with "literal" food and "literal diet." The table and temple are within. What we consume as truth, knowledge, thoughts, desires, emotions, etc.
2. How a human being's state of head, heart, and body are spun and woven are also not of literal clothing.
3. The Sabbath Day is not a literal day of the week. Every breath is rest and peace and oneness when the truth is found, and when one leaves father and mother, and cleaves to their wife.. Also not literal.
4. I'm not even sure where this is in scripture, it's natural to be thankful and content with anything for the spiritual being.
5. Cussing is repulsive, but taming the tongue is spiritual, not speaking lies about "God," anything that isn't truth, or harming another.

One may go out of there way to do vain, outward works of the flesh that have no meaning upon the state or pureness of one's heart, head, and body... or one can be in truth and do all of those within and be at rest.

The entire laws are love, and treating another as you'd want to be treated, and they apply within.

Every religion is created by man's wisdom and interpretation of scriptural texts, because they are all taken literally.

When one finds reality and the truth, it is crystal clear how the scriptures apply to all humans, because ones conscious and awareness is altered. What all humans' have in common is truth, spiritually and physically. Mankind can alter, interpret, change, perceive the scriptures however they'd want ... But the truth for all will always remain the same behind them.