Adam and his wife died physically after eating the Forbidden Fruit. Genesis 2:17 is Literal.

[Ajax]

Since you believe that Moses is fictional, and the stele was telling the truth, and I realize many believe as you do, there can really be no discussion about this between you and me.

As you wish but please read these so that you can become historically educated..
Egypt in Canaan - Canaan & Ancient Israel @ University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology
https://tsjok45.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/finkelstein-israel_the-bible-unearthed.pdf

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Seems no one here has the ability to interpret Scripture literally, yet I am able to do it with ease and with no contradictions.

Good for you! Here's a gold star!

For me, that you have a "Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil" and a "Tree of Life and Death" is a darn good sign you are meant to read Genesis figuratively. What are these things but symbols pointing to an understanding of the human condition?

My personal interpretation is that Adam and Eve pre-Fall were more like any other animal: existing moment to moment, taking things as they are, and "one with Nature." The Garden was "Oneness with God," or "Oneness with their environment."

The fruit they ate provided them with human intellect. They were able to perceive the world logically and morally as "good and evil, me and you, this and that," and were exiled from this oneness with nature. All of a sudden, they were mortal beings, doomed to die, living in a world of objects; dead things.

I see Christ on the Cross as an equivalent symbol to the Tree of Life and death, with Christ as the fruit (hence the magical nature of Communion, eating his flesh and sweet fermented blood). Christ reunites, becomes one with God. Through Christ, we gain salvation, eternal life, oneness with God. For me, this is meant to point the way to an understanding that we are essentially one with the Universe: the consciousness of it. We can return (a little bit) to Eden.

 

[wellwisher]

Adam and his wife died *physically* after partaking of the Forbidden Fruit. Moreover, it was on that very day...

Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

• Day means Day, as in twenty-four hours or less.
• Surely Die means Surely Die, as in physical death.

As far as I know, I am the only person on the planet that believes the above verse.

Both Christians and Non-Christians alike will take away and add words to the verse to make it state something it does not.

Some examples include...

• Spiritual Death: Adam and his wife 'died Spiritually'.
• Begin to Age: The 'aging process' for Adam and his wife 'began ticking'.
• Day is a Thousand Years: Adam and his wife 'died within a thousand-year timeframe'.

Note that taking away and adding to the Word of God is of course a very big no-no, yet everyone does it with Genesis 2:17.

There is no need however, to alter the verse. Genesis 2:17 agrees with the entire Bible when taken literally.

In fact, it is the *only* way in which it does!

What dies is the innocence of Adam and Eve, stemming from the tree of life; natural instinct. After they ate, they became self conscious of being naked. This awareness was not natural, but was connected to their newly learned knowledge of good and evil; naked is now defined as evil. This was a tell to God that they had eaten.

The stress of human adult living had begun, and the age of childhood innocence was over. Now stresses began for all humans; original sin, as they started to judge each other, often by subjective man made laws of good and evil; pronouns and unclean foods, with death often the consequence of violation of the ancient laws.

A toddler will run around naked, being carefree and full of joi de vie. It is funny to watch; age of innocence. As soon as the parents start to feel awkward and start to teach "right and wrong", that naked is not good, the child's free spirit is lost. If nothing had even been said; child was not force to eat of the tree of this knowledge of good and evil, running around naked would go on much longer.

Interestingly, in the first few years of school, the girls, on average, will learn the rules faster than the boys, with many boys not wishing to follow the school laws of good and evil. This difference appears to be connected to the innate nature of females more geared to the structure of law; Eve. The boys are not as structures and need to be pushed a little harder, before they go along; Adam. This difference; brain differences, allow the males to be more innovative; break the rules, and the females become the capacitance of culture; maintain and teach the traditions.

 

[YoursTrue]

As you wish but please read these so that you can become historically educated..
Egypt in Canaan - Canaan & Ancient Israel @ University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology
https://tsjok45.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/finkelstein-israel_the-bible-unearthed.pdf

I looked at it and not sure what point you are using. Also, I noticed a misspelling I think at the beginning of the article. Unless I can speak to the authors of this article it casts doubt on the scholarship. But what is the relevance you are trying to bring out?
P.S. Not saying that errors are not made, nevertheless is it Cannan or Canaan?

 

[YoursTrue]

As you wish but please read these so that you can become historically educated..
Egypt in Canaan - Canaan & Ancient Israel @ University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology
https://tsjok45.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/finkelstein-israel_the-bible-unearthed.pdf

By the way, the notice at the top of the page you directed me to says this; "This page includes information that may not reflect the current views and values of the Penn Museum."

 

[Ajax]

I looked at it and not sure what point you are using. Also, I noticed a misspelling I think at the beginning of the article. Unless I can speak to the authors of this article it casts doubt on the scholarship. But what is the relevance you are trying to bring out?
P.S. Not saying that errors are not made, nevertheless is it Cannan or Canaan?

The point I want to make is that Exodus is fiction. Egyptians were the major force in the world at the time of the supposed Exodus. Not only that but they were already in Canaan, using it as outpost for their Assyrians enemies, where Israelites and Canaanites were co-existing. They had built forts and water reservoirs. Also the first time we have encountered the name "Israel" in any surviving ancient text is in the Merneptah stele.
Try to read The Bible Unearthed.
It is Canaan.

 

[Ajax]

By the way, the notice at the top of the page you directed me to says this; "This page includes information that may not reflect the current views and values of the Penn Museum.

That's for avoidance of liability. All their pages have the same on top.
Try this if you don't like the Penn Museum.
Egypt’s Final Redoubt in Canaan - Archaeology Magazine

 

[Ajax]

What dies is the innocence of Adam and Eve, stemming from the tree of life; natural instinct. After they ate, they became self conscious of being naked. This awareness was not natural, but was connected to their newly learned knowledge of good and evil; naked is now defined as evil. This was a tell to God that they had eaten.

 

[shunyadragon]

What dies is the innocence of Adam and Eve, stemming from the tree of life; natural instinct. After they ate, they became self conscious of being naked. This awareness was not natural, but was connected to their newly learned knowledge of good and evil; naked is now defined as evil. This was a tell to God that they had eaten.

The stress of human adult living had begun, and the age of childhood innocence was over. Now stresses began for all humans; original sin, as they started to judge each other, often by subjective man made laws of good and evil; pronouns and unclean foods, with death often the consequence of violation of the ancient laws.

A toddler will run around naked, being carefree and full of joi de vie. It is funny to watch; age of innocence. As soon as the parents start to feel awkward and start to teach "right and wrong", that naked is not good, the child's free spirit is lost. If nothing had even been said; child was not force to eat of the tree of this knowledge of good and evil, running around naked would go on much longer.

Interestingly, in the first few years of school, the girls, on average, will learn the rules faster than the boys, with many boys not wishing to follow the school laws of good and evil. This difference appears to be connected to the innate nature of females more geared to the structure of law; Eve. The boys are not as structures and need to be pushed a little harder, before they go along; Adam. This difference; brain differences, allow the males to be more innovative; break the rules, and the females become the capacitance of culture; maintain and teach the traditions.

Tou describe the Creation myth as if it is real history. There is absolutely no evidence that this is factual history. It is an evolved myth from Sumerian and Babylonian mythology compiled in the Pentateuch after 600 BCE

 

[Anne1]

Tou describe the Creation myth as if it is real history. There is absolutely no evidence that this is factual history. It is an evolved myth from Sumerian and Babylonian mythology compiled in the Pentateuch after 600 BCE

Not a myth, an allegory. A very great difference. Starting with St Paul and his use of typos, to St Augustine wring that " In the Old Testament the New is concealed, in the New the Old is revealed

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

P.S. Not saying that errors are not made, nevertheless is it Cannan or Canaan?

• Canaan
• See also Redford's Egypt, Canaan, and Israel in Ancient Times

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

In the Old Testament the New is concealed, in the New the Old is revealed

Rubbish,

 

[shunyadragon]

Not a myth, an allegory. A very great difference. Starting with St Paul and his use of typos, to St Augustine wring that " In the Old Testament the New is concealed, in the New the Old is revealed

Odd confusing response. The majority if not all Church Fathers believed in a literal Pentateuch, but allowed allegorical interpretations also. Augustine believe in a version of literal Genesis including Adam and Eve, but believed the initial Creation was instantaneous. You cannot appeal to Augustine and the Church Fathers for anything else than a literal history of humanity beginning with Adam and Eve.

Christianty.com

The theological developments Augustine embraced in this process arose from his bringing of the literal Adam into the foreground of redemptive-history.

On the basis of passages such as Romans 5 and 1 Corinthians 15 Augustine presented Adam as not only the origin of the human race, but also the forerunner of Christ, the second Adam. Upon the reality of a literal Adam depended not just the goodness of creation (contra the Manichees) or the unity of the Bible (contra the Marcionites). With Adam in the foreground of redemptive history, a literal Adam was one of the foundations upon which rested the certainty of God’s wrath being quenched, and grace being poured out:

You will see that the anger of God came upon the human race through one man and that reconciliation with God comes through one man. This is for those who are graciously set free from the condemnation of the entire race. The first Adam was made from the earth; the second Adam was made from a woman. In the former flesh was made through a word, in the latter the Word was made flesh.[14]

In this section, Augustine goes on to cite Romans 5, highlighting his indebtedness to that passage.

Augustine had long affirmed a literal Adam. In facing the Pelagian challenge to grace and original sin, Augustine realized he had to bring into the foreground what had till that point been in the background. This enabled him to explore more carefully the nature of Adam’s sin and its impact on all his descendants.

Augustine and the other Church Fathers also believed in literal Noah's Ark flood.

 

[YoursTrue]

The point I want to make is that Exodus is fiction. Egyptians were the major force in the world at the time of the supposed Exodus. Not only that but they were already in Canaan, using it as outpost for their Assyrians enemies, where Israelites and Canaanites were co-existing. They had built forts and water reservoirs. Also the first time we have encountered the name "Israel" in any surviving ancient text is in the Merneptah stele.
Try to read The Bible Unearthed.
It is Canaan.

Let me put it to you this way: there are many things (writings) that have been lost over time. Plus, when I see the news on national media, I am pretty sure there are some things not reported.

 

[YoursTrue]

The point I want to make is that Exodus is fiction. Egyptians were the major force in the world at the time of the supposed Exodus. Not only that but they were already in Canaan, using it as outpost for their Assyrians enemies, where Israelites and Canaanites were co-existing. They had built forts and water reservoirs. Also the first time we have encountered the name "Israel" in any surviving ancient text is in the Merneptah stele.
Try to read The Bible Unearthed.
It is Canaan.

Once again, once I see a misspelling of a published article, especially by those who profess to be experts, my trust is diminished in that authority.

 

[shunyadragon]

Let me put it to you this way: there are many things (writings) that have been lost over time. Plus, when I see the news on national media, I am pretty sure there are some things not reported.

Not so sure. Events are recorded in many ways today, but in ancient times ALL primitive cultures that had writing made records and communicated on stone, clay tablets and pottery. Before 500-800 BCE Hebrews simply dog not have writing.

 

[shunyadragon]

Once again, once I see a misspelling of a published article, especially by those who profess to be experts, my trust is diminished in that authority.

For example?

 

[YoursTrue]

• Canaan
• See also Redford's Egypt, Canaan, and Israel in Ancient Times

What I am saying is that time lapses or differences in various cultures can be offsetting.

 

[shunyadragon]

What I am saying is that time lapses or differences in various cultures can be offsetting.

Not coherent,

 

[Ajax]

Once again, once I see a misspelling of a published article, especially by those who profess to be experts, my trust is diminished in that authority.

The English term "Canaan" (pronounced /ˈkeɪnən/ since c. 1500, due to the Great Vowel Shift) comes from the Hebrew כנען (Kənaʿan), via the Koine Greek Χανααν Khanaan and the Latin Canaan.