Adultery and monogamy

[Jimmy]

Cheating is bad. If you wanna play the field be single and go for it. Monogamy is good. If you want polygamy go for it.

 

[Spice]

It might absolutely be my fault, given my attitude towards the risks involved. Some people would go out of their way to put a man like me in a position, deliberately based on my disapproval of the associated risks involved. I may be too cautious at this point. It's been nearly 25 years and the walls I've built are nearly insurmountable. I tell myself I'm fasting. Truth is, I'm scared and have been scorched a couple too many times to let it go, so forgive me if I misplace a screw you every now and then to someone legit.

It's a shame there are so many in this day and age that chose celibacy (where physical, emotional, or both), but it's a fact of the times.

I have two sons in their 40s that have no desire to be in a relationship. I haven't made the attempt myself in more than 20 years. And yet, we all three seem quite content - for the most part.

It's the fine print of that personal contract with self that concerns me with my sons. I had 2 really focused trys, and when I gave up, I still had them. I worry what their state of mind may be as time moves forward.

I'm hoping friends will tighten the circle when they begin to become empty nesters. .........

 

[Balthazzar]

It's a shame there are so many in this day and age that chose celibacy (where physical, emotional, or both), but it's a fact of the times.

I have two sons in their 40s that have no desire to be in a relationship. I haven't made the attempt myself in more than 20 years. And yet, we all three seem quite content - for the most part.

It's the fine print of that personal contract with self that concerns me with my sons. I had 2 really focused trys, and when I gave up, I still had them. I worry what their state of mind may be as time moves forward.

I'm hoping friends will tighten the circle when they begin to become empty nesters. .........

It's about trust and commitment and working as a unit. People either mean it or they don't. People play others or they don't. I've never been much a player. My heart just isn't in it like that. No heart equates to no play and no bond. I guess it's a motto I've adopted and developed over the last few decades. I fully expect my next travel partner, copilot, other half, etc. to make me know that it's forbidden to ever leave her or cheat on her. She can take a whip and leave whelps on my back if she needs to...every time Its required to leave her side. I don't care. I need to know she means it. I couldn't return the favor, though. Making me know will have to suffice for her fidelity also. If she's not pissed off about her past relationships and as tired of the play as I am, then don't bother.

 

[Spice]

It's about trust and commitment and working as a unit. People either mean it or they don't. People play others or they don't. I've never been much a player. My heart just isn't in it like that. No heart equates to no play and no bond. I guess it's a motto I've adopted and developed over the last few decades. I fully expect my next travel partner, copilot, other half, etc. to make me know that it's forbidden to ever leave her or cheat on her. She can take a whip and leave whelps on my back if she needs to...every time Its required to leave her side. I don't care. I need to know she means it. I couldn't return the favor, though. Making me know will have to suffice for her fidelity also. If she's not pissed off about her past relationships and as tired of the play as I am, then don't bother.

Just remember that some commit and trust to the point of mutual assumption and live with no visible strings or tangles, but JUST on commitment and trust.

Maybe that's why I didn't keep either of mine -- I refused to fight them to do right. And I certainly never equated possessiveness and jealousy with commitment and trust. I guess I was tge perfect target for doormat.

 

[Balthazzar]

Just remember that some commit and trust to the point of mutual assumption and live with no visible strings or tangles, but JUST on commitment and trust.

Maybe that's why I didn't keep either of mine -- I refused to fight them to do right. And I certainly never equated possessiveness and jealousy with commitment and trust. I guess I was tge perfect target for doormat.

Going through the motions, putting up with unreasonable ****, and stepping over boundaries preset and/or expected is not a relationship built on trust or commitment. It's one built on false commitments and unreasonable expectations, with the expectation that the other will submit to the bull****. This typically happens with something hanging over head that is needed. It's almost like blackmail. Lots of people utilize this tactic to keep people in check and under their control.

I prefer a relationship built on trust and commitment, with a no bull**** toleration for bull****. If they aren't serious about getting involved, stay the frack away. If they are serious, I need to know it and that they want it. If not, what's the point? You can half *** lots of things in life, but I suspect I'm not alone in my disagreement with half ***'ing matters of the heart. This isn't possessive behavior. It's necessitated over too many years of half hearted associations. Trust comes in with the knowing and commitment starts from onset to getting to that point...or not. I prefer not worrying about my wife or girl friend going out with her friends. I need to trust her that way. How can I ever know I'm able to trust her? She needs to make me know it. We'll figure it out together. She may need to hate me for making her whip me to prove to me that she needs me to never stop loving her for me to trust that she means it. I'm not into this. I'm just sick of the bull****.

Edit: The point is the whipping would hurt less than cheating. Ok, so yeah ... I'm sensitive. I have expectations. I'm too old to waste time on bull**** and I'm too pissed to deal with fakers for any length of time. I'm too tired to go through too much drama and I'm too fed up not to walk away from a play. One day she'll show up and we can start our life ... finally. Or she won't and I'll keep my walls up while looking back at a memory I can't shake.

 

[Spice]

Going through the motions, putting up with unreasonable ****, and stepping over boundaries preset and/or expected is not a relationship built on trust or commitment. It's one built on false commitments and unreasonable expectations, with the expectation that the other will submit to the bull****. This typically happens with something hanging over head that is needed. It's almost like blackmail. Lots of people utilize this tactic to keep people in check and under their control.

I prefer a relationship built on trust and commitment, with a no bull**** toleration for bull****. If they aren't serious about getting involved, stay the frack away. If they are serious, I need to know it and that they want it. If not, what's the point? You can half *** lots of things in life, but I suspect I'm not alone in my disagreement with half ***'ing matters of the heart. This isn't possessive behavior. It's necessitated over too many years of half hearted associations. Trust comes in with the knowing and commitment starts from onset to getting to that point...or not. I prefer not worrying about my wife or girl friend going out with her friends. I need to trust her that way. How can I ever know I'm able to trust her? She needs to make me know it. We'll figure it out together. She may need to hate me for making her whip me to prove to me that she needs me to never stop loving her for me to trust that she means it. I'm not into this. I'm just sick of the bull****.

I do understand. I've had years of epiphanies following a marriage that I had assumed the vows were meant to be real. The official vows were even tweaked so they could be realistic. And in addition, more private ones were made in the car while the tincans still rattled behind. That night will be 50 years ago next month. But no true regrets -- I have my sons. I just wish I had an epiphany or two before they were old enough to be asked by daddy to keep his secrets.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Adultery is fine.

Monogamy shouldn’t be the norm.

That’s my stance.

I don’t adulterize because I love my boyfriend. I am monogamous because my boyfriend has the socially acceptable view that monogamy is the correct way. I love him enough to where I settle into a monogamous and faithful relationship.

But it doesn’t mean I don’t hold the stances I stated above.

When my now exwife “cheated” on me, I took it real personally. Therapist told me that it was a “me problem” and to simply get over it because the wifey actually and literally did nothing to me. She was missing an emotional need and was trying to fill it. And I’m mad? How unthoughtful and selfish.

Next girlfriend “cheated” on me. I didn’t get mad when she came to me crying about it. I just asked “Oh, why? Is there something wrong in our relationship?”

Oh, and monogamy I believe is a religious construct. Absent of religion, monogamy can be reduced to possessiveness. You are claiming to own someone exclusively when you are monogamous. My first wife tried this logic with me but I was raised Christian so I wasn’t having it because marriage a picture of God’s relationship with us supposedly.

I have matured and have hindsight now.

Adultery is fine.

Monogamy is selfish and possessive.

debate me normies

I think Monogamy is a bit more nuanced than that as there are different forms of intimacy and people have different comfort levels. Some people have a stronger infidelity trait than others and are “naturally” more inclined to stray, be that emotionally or physically than others.
It could also be argued that adultery is selfish due to the negative emotional impact it could have on your partner - the insecurities & jealousy it can provoke.
Therefore, I don’t think it’s fair to deem monogamy to be entirely selfish and backward. I would say it’s quite selfless to prioritise your partners feelings and try to protect them from pain. When both parties are in agreement, it works for them.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

This is the attitude that I take issue with. Monogamy is completely possessive. This shouldn’t be the norm in my opinion it is archaic to think you alone should have exclusive rights to someone.

That jealousy is caveman brain.

Jealousy is not “caveman” brain - it’s one of several emotions that most people have in various degrees.
Would you not agree that even in poly relationships there are still boundaries & restrictions & regulations to behaviour? Would you be okay with your partner having sexual intimacy with anyone including your parents? Your siblings? Your best friend? Your work colleagues?
You see, in all relationships there is an expectation of boundary recognition and self control.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

It is a two way street imo. And at the end of the day, if you aren’t getting your emotional needs fulfilled in a closed monogamous relationship, you are doing yourself and your mental health a disservice by maintaining loyalty and/or the relationship.

While that is true, the right thing in that scenario is to end the relationship or seek to mend it, not to cheat on the other person in that relationship. The alternative to being in an unhappy or unfulfilling relationship is not cheating on your partner.

You gotta take care of yourself at the end of the day. So even if it is the “failings” of the adulterer, why be mad? Because they took care of their needs?

Because they betrayed the trust of another human being, took them for granted, and were too selfish and weak to do the right thing.

This is like asking why be mad if someone kicks you and steals your coat. It's pretty obvious why.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Adultery is fine.
Monogamy shouldn’t be the norm.
That’s my stance.

I disagree. In the sense that you are stating it as a generality.
I'ld say the norm is whatever the parties in the relationship are agreeing to.
The main cultural norm in most societies is monogamy, sure. And because of that, I'ld think that it would be the default expectation in the majority of relationships.

But at bottom, it is what the involved parties agree to that is the "norm" within the relationship in question.
Personally, I think most people aren't psychologically capable of "sharing" their wife / husband or girlfriend / boyfriend.
I see this often also in couples that have an "open" relationship with mutual consent. Most of them don't last. Sooner or later, jealousy and alike sets in.
It clearly is not for everyone.

When my now exwife “cheated” on me, I took it real personally. Therapist told me that it was a “me problem” and to simply get over it because the wifey actually and literally did nothing to me. She was missing an emotional need and was trying to fill it. And I’m mad? How unthoughtful and selfish.

Strange thing to say for a therapist, imo.
That, or we don't know the full story here.

Oh, and monogamy I believe is a religious construct.

I don't think so. Many religions allow for a man to have multiple wives.

Absent of religion, monogamy can be reduced to possessiveness.

I reduce it loyalty.

Adultery is fine.

If and when all parties involved agree upon it.

Monogamy is selfish and possessive.

Disagree. I consider it to be about loyalty first and foremost.
Cheating then is like betrayal of trust. When another man sleeps with my wife, then I don't consider that man a "thief" who "stole" my wife.
Instead, I consider my wife a cheater who betrayed my trust. And she'ld have a really hard time to restore that trust. It might even be impossible.

I don't know as it has never happened to me. I think a reason for that is that I've always been very picky about who I dated. I actually only had 2 relationships in my life. One when I was about 16, which lasted for a year. The next one is the one I am still in right now, lasting some 26 years now.

I sure had plenty of opportunity of girls / women who practically threw themselves at me. Some of them very beautiful. But I knew there was no future there. They smelled not trustworthy. Fun chicks for sure. But not the type of women I'ld want as a life partner and as the mother of my kids. The "throwing themselves at me" was also kind of a turn off / alarm bell for me. It made it "too easy". That's just a red flag for me. They are the kind of women who would put out on the first or second date. It's borderline slutty. If I were more of a macho / player, I could have easily hooked up with them for a night or two but I'm just not that kid of guy.

And sure enough, most of these women in fact indeed did hook up with a bunch of guys for one night stands. Good for them, I'm not judging. I hope they had fun doing that. It's just not for me. I look for stability, loyalty and friendship first before I look what's underneath the dress. Not that I don't think it's important what's under the dress though.... But what's under the dress is going to change through time and become less attractive. And that also goes for what's under my pants. But the loyalty and friendship - that lasts.

I'm also of the opinion that if there's a psychological match, then the physical match will be so much better automagically also.

Sex for the sake of sex sure sounds fun in my imagination. But in real life I'ld likely just be disappointed and consider it meaningless and empty.

And if I'm totally honest, the idea of hooking up with a chick, no matter how hot, just for sex... I'ld find it icky, because I'ld also realize and / or wonder that many guys would have done just that before me.

To each their own off course. I'ld never judge. It's just not for me.

debate me normies

Well, as you may have notice by now... I don't think there is anything here to "debate".
I have my opinions / views about it and other people have their opinions and views. And I don't consider one to be "more correct" then the other.

It's like trying to debate which music band is better.

All I can say is that if the lifestyle choice of an open relationship directly leads to a break up further down the line, then clearly that choice was not the correct choice - if a lasting relationship was the goal to begin with, off course.

The only thing I'ld say of which I do have some pretty strong views, is that once children are involved or a goal... then a lasting relationship to provide a stable home for the children SHOULD be the goal. And I don't care what that relationship looks like, as long as it provides a stable home for the kids. Once children are part of the equation, then it's no longer about just you. Then it's primarily about the children. It's about responsibility. Which off course doesn't mean that people should remain in an unhappy / toxic relationship "just for the kids" off course. Such relationships don't provide "stable" homes for the kids anyway. But it does mean, imo, that you weren't picky enough when selecting a partner with whom to build a family.

It's easier said then done off course.... But at the same time, I can usually tell in advance in my social circle which couples will last and which won't. Perhaps I'm just a good judge of character, I don't know. I've in any case never heard of a break-up which surprised me.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Strange thing to say for a therapist, imo.
That, or we don't know the full story here.

I agree with that. Any therapist who would genuinely tell a client "It's your fault your partner cheated on you" should lose their license.

 

[LuisDantas]

Open relationships are valid, if both parties agree to them.

Adultery is not quite the same thing.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I agree with that. Any therapist who would genuinely tell a client "It's your fault your partner cheated on you" should lose their license.

Yeah well... unless we don't know the full story here.

I can certainly imagine scenario's where a therapist would say such a thing and even be kind of right about it.
Certain types of behavior can certainly push your partner to the door. Even then you might say that that partner could still break it up before sleeping around, but there certainly are situations imaginable where there are... how to put it.... "mitigating circumstances".

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Open relationships are valid, if both parties agree to them.

Adultery is not quite the same thing.

Indeed.
Even in an open relationship it's quite possible to "cheat".

Cheating, after all, is a behavior that violates agreed upon parameters.

For example of the agreement in the open relationship is that both can sleep around with others, but not fall in love... then falling in love would be a violation thereof. Strange condition btw which I hear a lot in context of open relationships - as if one has control over that.

Or a condition might be that they may sleep around, but always only after discussing it first that one is going to go on a sex date.

Cheating is just the mere betrayal of trust; the violation of made agreements.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Adultery is fine.

Monogamy shouldn’t be the norm.

That’s my stance.

I don’t adulterize because I love my boyfriend. I am monogamous because my boyfriend has the socially acceptable view that monogamy is the correct way. I love him enough to where I settle into a monogamous and faithful relationship.

But it doesn’t mean I don’t hold the stances I stated above.

When my now exwife “cheated” on me, I took it real personally. Therapist told me that it was a “me problem” and to simply get over it because the wifey actually and literally did nothing to me. She was missing an emotional need and was trying to fill it. And I’m mad? How unthoughtful and selfish.

Next girlfriend “cheated” on me. I didn’t get mad when she came to me crying about it. I just asked “Oh, why? Is there something wrong in our relationship?”

Oh, and monogamy I believe is a religious construct. Absent of religion, monogamy can be reduced to possessiveness. You are claiming to own someone exclusively when you are monogamous. My first wife tried this logic with me but I was raised Christian so I wasn’t having it because marriage a picture of God’s relationship with us supposedly.

I have matured and have hindsight now.

Adultery is fine.

Monogamy is selfish and possessive.

debate me normies

I fully disagree since adultery means you have violated the trust of your partner.

Monogamy is not selfish and possessive if 2 people agree with being exclusive .

I mean it sounds like you are applying a construct of a open relationship to a traditional relationship.

Could be wrong about your position so you can correct me if I am wrong

 

[LuisDantas]

Cheating is just the mere betrayal of trust; the violation of made agreements.

I so agree!

While cheating often involves sexual thoughts and behavior, IMO those are not necessary elements; it is possible and very frequent for cheating to happen without any clear sexual component, by deliberately encouraging misconceptions or hiding information that might be emotionally significant to the other party.

 

[Balthazzar]

We learn as we go and sometimes, I guess, it works out and other times it doesn't. Monogamy doesn't seem so commonplace anymore. I'm not so sure it ever was, but ... It's a journey. What have I learned from my own?

Journey of a Lifetime

Image taken from google search.

 

[Balthazzar]

Contemplating life as an aging male, single and one who rather enjoys his time spent alone doing this very thing, I have inadvertently stepped into the role of a storyteller and a student. Even in loneliness life has become no less amazing than it was when I was a child running through the woods, making river rafts and learning lessons walking across ice covered bodies of water. It's no less risky. I'm still required to discern what's right for me and wrong, what might be a more reasonable way than other alternatives in front of me.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Nah I’ll wait if you end up feeling like posting some links later. You can always find supporting info for both sides of an argument on the internet, so id be bound to find info that supports my side I sure.

Here's one:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/polygamy-national-security-putin-120234/

That sums it up pretty well.

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

When my now exwife “cheated” on me, I took it real personally. Therapist told me that it was a “me problem” and to simply get over it because the wifey actually and literally did nothing to me. She was missing an emotional need and was trying to fill it. And I’m mad? How unthoughtful and selfish.

Your therapist was abusive to gaslight you that way.