Adultery...bad?

[Enoch07]

Well this is going to offend someone undoubtedly. But I mean no offense as I am just describing my opinion of what God was thinking thousands of years ago.

God was against homosexuality in the Old Testament why? Old Testament took place when the human race was very young. If there was as many homosexuals back then as their is now the human race might have gone extinct, the danger was clearly there. That is why it was "bad" back then. In todays time the world is well populated. Homosexuality no longer presents the danger of extinction, unless under EXTREME conditions which are almost impossible to happen in this day. Personally I have no problems with the gay community as a whole. I may not agree with everything, they have to say, but I think there is about a million issues that are far more important than worrying about homosexuality.

 

[ChristineES]

Because the church today is ruled by Satan, it isn't for God, it is now to serve man. No longer for the creator but the creature. Whatever they want they get these days.

I think people worship themselves. People are more tolerant, it seems, on things that will effect them. Since divorce is so prevalent nowadays, people will tolerate it more.
And then there is hypocrisy.

 

[Imagist]

Well this is going to offend someone undoubtedly. But I mean no offense as I am just describing my opinion of what God was thinking thousands of years ago.

God was against homosexuality in the Old Testament why? Old Testament took place when the human race was very young. If there was as many homosexuals back then as their is now the human race might have gone extinct, the danger was clearly there. That is why it was "bad" back then. In todays time the world is well populated. Homosexuality no longer presents the danger of extinction, unless under EXTREME conditions which are almost impossible to happen in this day. Personally I have no problems with the gay community as a whole. I may not agree with everything, they have to say, but I think there is about a million issues that are far more important than worrying about homosexuality.

I don't find this offensive, just misguided.

At the time these laws were written, humans were already well-distributed across the continents, and in no danger of extinction.

Furthermore, homosexuality contributed to the survival of some groups. Ancient Greek soldiers were arguably better-equipped to fight because they weren't distracted by sexual needs since they fulfilled each others sexual needs ("Do ask, do tell, and just plain do" policy.). When the Greeks finished fighting victoriously, they went home and successfully reproduced with their wives.

 

[Buttons*]

At the time these laws were written, humans were already well-distributed across the continents, and in no danger of extinction.

Not in the case of the Jewish people, I reckon.

If you think about it, it sort of makes sense too. The only way to distinguish your tribe from another would be to adhere to different norms. So, maybe in order to distinguish themselves from people like the Greeks, they had to take an alternate route in order to make it known that they were strictly Jewish and nothing else. Hence themes like circumcision or blatant heterosexuality.

 

[Kathryn]

So, after posting the list of verses concerning both adultery and homosexuality, it still amazes me that the church tolerates remarriage and divorce MUCH more often than homosexuality. The church is flooded with divorced people who remarry. I don't get it.

Buttons, please see my very extensive two posts on the biblical aspects of divorce and remarriage.

That being said, I don't like a double standard ANYWHERE, but especially in church.

The church I attend doesn't ostrasize people - why run them off, if they are there seeking God?

 

[Buttons*]

lol, sorry Kathryn, that was Buttercup it confuses a lot of people when we're in threads together heehee

 

[Buttercup]

Buttons, please see my very extensive two posts on the biblical aspects of divorce and remarriage.

hehee. We're mixed up somewhat often.

I did read your post and I understand that point. I just wish the majority of Christendom felt the same way. I'm not sure they do though.

 

[Kathryn]

lol, sorry Kathryn, that was Buttercup it confuses a lot of people when we're in threads together heehee

OH SHEEZE, SORRY you two!

 

[Buttercup]

OH SHEEZE, SORRY you two!

If you saw us in person you wouldn't mix us up. I'm old enough to be her mother and about a foot taller.

 

[linwood]

If you saw us in person you wouldn't mix us up. I'm old enough to be her mother and about a foot taller.

I mix you guys up sometimes too.

I think it`s because you have similar "butts".

 

[Ringer]

I think it`s because you have similar "butts".

OH BEHAVE!

 

[Buttercup]

I mix you guys up sometimes too.

I think it`s because you have similar "butts".

Mine's more slippery.

 

[Buttons*]

Mine's more slippery.

mine's much bigger

Or smaller, depending on the clothes

 

[Kathryn]

Here's an important distinction I think needs to be made:

Divorce itself is not sinful. Sometimes divorce is very necessary. The bible does seem to point out though that sometimes remarriage is sinful. It seems that if the circumstances of the divorce don't warrant the divorce, then remarriage is not an option.

Another thing to consider is the possibility that things like adultery, abuse, abandonment, and addiction are more common now than they used to be. If that is the case, then those are some very serious, and I believe biblically valid, reasons to get a divorce and be free to remarry. I believe my position on that is supported by the scripture and logic I laid out in my earlier posts.

And finally - one difference between divorce and homosexuality is this: Divorce is an action, not a lifestyle. Homosexuality, except in the case of a celibate gay person, is a lifestyle, not a single event.

Jesus' sacrifice on the cross covers our sins, but we are called to repent, and then change our lifestyle.

Let me use an example: Say a fifteen year old girl has sex one time. Was this serious? Yes. She may feel horrible about it and wish she had never done it, but she can't change the fact that she did it. This act may even have serious ramifications that affect her entire life, but it is a single act. She may repent and ask God for forgiveness - but she also has the responsibility to change her behavior.

If she "repents" but INTENDS to do it again, that's not really repentence at all, and there's no forgiveness without true repentence.

 

[Buttercup]

Another thing to consider is the possibility that things like adultery, abuse, abandonment, and addiction are more common now than they used to be. If that is the case, then those are some very serious, and I believe biblically valid, reasons to get a divorce and be free to remarry. I believe my position on that is supported by the scripture and logic I laid out in my earlier posts.

I was a Christian for over 25 years and attended church and bible studies regularly. There's just no getting around the fact that divorce and remarriage without any form of abuse, addiction or other "righteous excuse" is rampant in the church. I saw divorce time and time again for irreconcilable differences. I think statistics back this up as well. It's long been known that over 50% of marriages end in divorce. A large percentage of those people are "Christians" and divorce simply because they don't get along anymore. Never before in the history of mankind has divorce been so prevalent.

And finally - one difference between divorce and homosexuality is this: Divorce is an action, not a lifestyle. Homosexuality, except in the case of a celibate gay person, is a lifestyle, not a single event.

When Jesus says this....

"But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery." (Matthew 5:27-32)

I see that act as a lifestyle choice. Jesus doesn't say that by getting remarried you absolve the sin. It makes the situation worse. And, we all know that "adulterers" will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Matthew 6:9-11)

 

[Kathryn]

I was a Christian for over 25 years and attended church and bible studies regularly. There's just no getting around the fact that divorce and remarriage without any form of abuse, addiction or other "righteous excuse" is rampant in the church. I saw divorce time and time again for irreconcilable differences. I think statistics back this up as well.

That's just what you know from a public perspective. Privately, it could be a very different matter. For example, when I divorced my husband, I divorced him for "irreconcilable differences" on paper. It made things easier. What I was really divorcing him for was adultery - but that was no one's business but our own.

People aren't required to air all their dirty laundry when they're getting a divorce.

On the other hand, I do agree - people, Christians and non Christians alike, tend to treat divorce too casually these days. It's easy to get a divorce. However, I'm not so sure it SHOULDN'T be easy. Take the state of Texas for example. "No Fault" divorce is easy to obtain through the state. But why should two people have to go through some sort of convoluted process to prove to the STATE why they are getting a divorce? Like I said, the REASONS for divorce should be a private matter.

It's long been known that over 50% of marriages end in divorce. A large percentage of those people are "Christians" and divorce simply because they don't get along anymore. Never before in the history of mankind has divorce been so prevalent.

I agree - and it's sad. I never would have seen myself getting one divorce, let alone TWO divorces, when I was a young girl. But I never would have imagined that first husband would be abusive to our children and me - and I never would have imagined that my second husband would have committed adultery.

Obviously, I chose poorly. In retrospect, I guess I could have seen character flaws that pointed to those possibilities, but the reality is that neither the abuse nor the adultery showed up till we were YEARS into the marriages. SURPRISE!

When Jesus says this....

"But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery." (Matthew 5:27-32)

I see that act as a lifestyle choice. Jesus doesn't say that by getting remarried you absolve the sin. It makes the situation worse. And, we all know that "adulterers" will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Matthew 6:9-11)

Once again - please let me point out a couple of points:

1) This passage does not say that DIVORCE is adultery or sin. It says that sometimes REMARRIAGE is adultery.

2) This is one verse - and it must be read in context. In this passage, Jesus is not giving a full discourse on marriage, divorce, and remarriage. This one isolated verse is taken from the Sermon on the Mount. The Sermon on the Mount is full of GENERALITIES. The entire sermon is AGAINST getting hung up in the LETTER (legalism) of the Law, and instead begs us to focus on the SPIRIT of the Law.

The truths of the Sermon on the Mount are obviously not meant to be taken literally. For example, just a couple of verses before this one, Jesus says that if your right eye offends you, pluck it out, and if your right hand offends you, cut it off. I don't see anyone taking THAT command literally - because it's not meant to be. It's figurative.

Jesus means that we are to avoid temptation, even when it means inconveniencing ourselves or it involves personal sacrifice. He is asking for us to set a high standard for ourselves.

A couple of verses later, Jesus says that if someone asks you for your shirt, give him your coat too. Now - does this mean that every time you give someone a shirt, you have to go run to your closet and give them a coat too? No - it's figurative. Jesus means to be generous - when someone needs a shirt, they may need a coat too - give more than you are asked to give. Once again, he is asking us to set a high standard.

In this context, when Jesus makes broad sweeping remarks about divorce and remarriage, he is speaking generally and figuratively. I believe he is saying, "Don't try so hard to justify your selfish actions when you're contemplating divorce. Remember, this is very serious business. Divorce for selfish reasons is wrong, and when you remarry after a frivolous divorce, it's nothing more than adultery. My perfect plan is that one man and one woman remain married for a lifetime." There's that high standard again.

Say that a couple divorces FOR THE WRONG REASONS, and one party remarries. I think then that the other party is free to remarry. That's because regardless of the validity of the original divorce, the first remarriage now constitues an act of adultery, and the first marriage is now null and void. This leaves the other party free to remarry without that marriage being adulterous.

 

[Storm]

Homosexuality, except in the case of a celibate gay person, is a lifestyle, not a single event.

Homosexuality Is Not A LIfestyle

Funny how queers have lifestyles while straights just have lives....

:rainbow1:

 

[Kathryn]

Storm,

I am a Christian. Sometimes my faith holds what I consider to be uncomfortable truths. As a Christian, I often "fall short of the mark" myself.

This is my opinion: God's ideals are hard to obtain. His standard of holiness, in fact, is impossible for humans to obtain. That's why we need His grace. Accepting that grace requires submission of our will to His. This requires personal sacrifice and is often uncomfortable.

That's why so many people don't implement Christianity, or refuse to believe in it's principles. And guess what - that's ok. That's the beauty of free will.

As a Christian, I believe what the bible teaches about my faith. Sometimes those teachings are difficult, but after 47 years of study, prayer, rebellion, trying things my way, trying things God's way - God wins. I accept His word, and His grace.

Whether you accept it or not is totally between you and God. I won't force my beliefs on those who don't accept them, and I respectfully ask the same consideration.

That's my position.

 

[Storm]

What does that have to do with reducing being queer to a "lifestyle?" I honestly don't follow.

 

[Buttercup]

Once again - please let me point out a couple of points:

1) This passage does not say that DIVORCE is adultery or sin. It says that sometimes REMARRIAGE is adultery.

I understand and am not sure how we keep talking past each other. I'm saying that divorce and remarriage is rampant within the church and accepted with apparent ease. I thought I was making that point fairly clear but I guess not.

Say that a couple divorces FOR THE WRONG REASONS, and one party remarries. I think then that the other party is free to remarry. That's because regardless of the validity of the original divorce, the first remarriage now constitues an act of adultery, and the first marriage is now null and void. This leaves the other party free to remarry without that marriage being adulterous.

This is confusing. Oftentimes people divorce because BOTH parties want to end the marriage....it's called irreconcilable differences. Are you saying that one party in the marriage is always free to remarry while the other is not?