Adultery...bad?

[Just_me_Mike]

If that is your opinion so be it. God can take me anytime He pleases. And I am ok with that.

Why take my opinion, just look it up in the original manuscripts, in either hebrew or greek. You will find hell means grave among other words similar to that.

Again I am just representing the bible, not my opinion.

Mankind, more specifically the churches in the last 1900 years have found teaching about a place with a red devil and pitchfork is a geat way to get people into church. I have to admit it is pretty convincing to me, especially if I was a child.

I am an adult now, and can read the words myself, and the whole book for that matter. When carefully examined, the bible does not teach a literal place that will exist just south of heaven, that people will be taking a fire bath forever.

All the language in the bible can be understood if you take your time and compare scripture with scripture to find the fire and brimstone and torment are references that God will ultimately judge then destroy this place, and if you have any interest at all to be with God, you better figure it out now, because when it is over, it is over, for eternity. Some will live and some will die.

Again enoch, you say you represent the bible, or at least christianity, but pelase do so with biblical information. We are all here to learn and discuss, but you would be understood better if you provided some biblical basis for which you speak.

 

[Enoch07]

Why take my opinion, just look it up in the original manuscripts, in either hebrew or greek. You will find hell means grave among other words similar to that.

Again I am just representing the bible, not my opinion.

Mankind, more specifically the churches in the last 1900 years have found teaching about a place with a red devil and pitchfork is a geat way to get people into church. I have to admit it is pretty convincing to me, especially if I was a child.

I am an adult now, and can read the words myself, and the whole book for that matter. When carefully examined, the bible does not teach a literal place that will exist just south of heaven, that people will be taking a fire bath forever.

All the language in the bible can be understood if you take your time and compare scripture with scripture to find the fire and brimstone and torment are references that God will ultimately judge then destroy this place, and if you have any interest at all to be with God, you better figure it out now, because when it is over, it is over, for eternity. Some will live and some will die.

Again enoch, you say you represent the bible, or at least christianity, but pelase do so with biblical information. We are all here to learn and discuss, but you would be understood better if you provided some biblical basis for which you speak.

You are assuming that I am saying hell is like the hell in Dantes book. You have assumed wrong. To be judged to hell means for your soul to be put to death. I never stated what I thought hell was a place with red devils etc. To be judged to hell is to be consumed by God.

How does God appear to Moses on Mount Sinai?

Exodus 24: 17 reads "The sight of the glory of the Lord was like a consuming fire on the top of the mountain in the eyes of the children of Israel."

Deuteronomy 4:24 reads "For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.

If you are deemed a good person by your actions here on earth God's fire will not harm you. Moses did not burn up did he? But if you are deemed evil you will be consumed by the same very fire. You have the choice to choose between evil actions and good actions. Do not sit there and tell me people have no choice, in the actions they take. That is crazy. You are held accountable for those actions. Hence everyone has free will. It is that simple. Everyone has a say in their fate in the afterlife. Except Gods Elect.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

You are assuming that I am saying hell is like the hell in Dantes book. You have assumed wrong. To be judged to hell means for your soul to be put to death. I never stated what I thought hell was a place with red devils etc. To be judged to hell is to be consumed by God.

How does God appear to Moses on Mount Sinai?

Exodus 24: 17 reads "The sight of the glory of the Lord was like a consuming fire on the top of the mountain in the eyes of the children of Israel."

Deuteronomy 4:24 reads "For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.

If you are deemed a good person by your actions here on earth God's fire will not harm you. Moses did not burn up did he? But if you are deemed evil you will be consumed by the same very fire. You have the choice to choose between evil actions and good actions. Do not sit there and tell me people have no choice, in the actions they take. That is crazy. You are held accountable for those actions. Hence everyone has free will. It is that simple. Everyone has a say in their fate in the afterlife. Except Gods Elect.

Very good point Enoch, and I will tell you that we do indeed have the choices you spoke of. the place free will doesn't apply is when it comes to being saved. Please understand that I am not saying every move we make, is of God or Satan, I am saying that our choice to be saved is not of ourselves, because that choice would never be made because we are spiritually dead. It is only the choice of salvation that we do not have free will of. This is just something that we will have to agree to disagree on.
thanks though...

 

[Magic Man]

Again I am just representing the bible, not my opinion.

Well, actually you're representing both. You're representing your opinion of the Bible.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Well, actually you're representing both. You're representing your opinion of the Bible.

Yeah your right, I am wrong. I should right I am trying to be as faithful to the bible as possible, and where I can refer people back to the bible and not my opinion. Is that better?

Thanks!

 

[Magic Man]

Yeah your right, I am wrong. I should right I am trying to be as faithful to the bible as possible, and where I can refer people back to the bible and not my opinion. Is that better?

Thanks!

That's a little better. My main point was that there is no absolute interpretation of the Bible. Everyone interprets it based on their own experiences. When you refer people to the Bible, they will read the words, but may not get the same meaning you get from those words, and there's nothing to say that your meaning is any more true than theirs. That's all.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Then tell me why a very overweight person is MUCH more welcomed in church than an overtly gay person?

Ignorance perhaps? We are not to judge but only to love. :rainbow1:

 

[Enoch07]

Ignorance perhaps? We are not to judge but only to love. :rainbow1:

I have to agree with the man. :rainbow1:

 

[Buttons*]

No one else on the subject?

Other than redefining the definition of "adultery" or saying "you're taking things out of context" there is nothing else that proves to me that adultery in marriage, or divorce in general, should be more easily accepted by the church than homosexual couples.

HOWEVER, we did see that MANY of the people who do defend re-marriage and adultery (at least, as it concerns adultery from God, not from a partner) are also open to people living life the way they want, and do NOT condemn homosexuals to hell.

This was a very interesting observation for me! I hope it was educational for everyone else also

 

[Jeremy Mason]

I'd like to hear how they get away with it from a scriptural standpoint.

I would too.

 

[Buttons*]

I would too.

me three! Where's Emiliano?

 

[Beaudreaux]

Then tell me why a very overweight person is MUCH more welcomed in church than an overtly gay person?

Makes the pews look more full?

 

[Kathryn]

I can't speak for everyone, only myself and my church.

I do not think a gay couple would be ostrasized in my church, anymore than an obese person would be.

However, I also think that they may all be offended at times by the message, because the pastor may speak out against homosexuality OR gluttony.

Likewise, people who believe in abortion rights may be offended, because the pastor may speak out in defense of the unborn's right to life.

My family is very "military." I may get offended if the pastor preaches on the evil side of war.

It's the pastor's duty to preach the tenets of the faith and our application of those tenets to our daily lives.

If we only want platitudes and "feel good" messages, we should join a Self Esteem Support Group. Otherwise, sometimes our lifestyle should be challenged by our church/pastor, in order to help us become stronger Christians.

 

[extremepower]

Some countries do practice polygamy. So, its cultural I guess.

 

[ChristineES]

I believe something to be wrong if it hurts another person. If a person only hurts him or herself, that is one thing, but it is another thing altogether to hurt another person.
Since Jesus spoke directly about divorce and remarriage, I feel it is more important than gay couples or gluttony, which He didn't mention at all. (In fact, Jesus Himself was called a glutton, )

 

[Buttons*]

I believe something to be wrong if it hurts another person. If a person only hurts him or herself, that is one thing, but it is another thing altogether to hurt another person.
Since Jesus spoke directly about divorce and remarriage, I feel it is more important than gay couples or gluttony, which He didn't mention at all. (In fact, Jesus Himself was called a glutton, )

good point Thank you so much for posting this

Like I said, many of the Christians who DO follow the Lord and who aren't absolutely nuts believe that one must take the plank out of their own eyes before taking the splinter out of someone else's. Especially since Yeshua himself doesn't ever mention homosexuality, but does mention marital life. Do you happen to have those verses handy?

 

[ChristineES]

good point Thank you so much for posting this

Like I said, many of the Christians who DO follow the Lord and who aren't absolutely nuts believe that one must take the plank out of their own eyes before taking the splinter out of someone else's. Especially since Yeshua himself doesn't ever mention homosexuality, but does mention marital life. Do you happen to have those verses handy?

Sure, here they are (from the ESV translation):

Mat 5:31 "It was also said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'
Mat 5:32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery. And whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Mar 10:2 And Pharisees came up and in order to test him asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?"
Mar 10:3 He answered them, "What did Moses command you?"
Mar 10:4 They said, "Moses allowed a man to write a certificate of divorce and to send her away."
Mar 10:5 And Jesus said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment.
Mar 10:6 But from the beginning of creation, 'God made them male and female.'
Mar 10:7 'Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife,
Mar 10:8 and they shall become one flesh.' So they are no longer two but one flesh.
Mar 10:9 What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate."
Mar 10:10 And in the house the disciples asked him again about this matter.
Mar 10:11 And he said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her,
Mar 10:12 and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."

 

[Kathryn]

OK, since we're debating what the bible says and doesn't say about divorce and homosexuality, here are some additional verses related to homosexuality:

1 Timothy 1:8-10:


8But we know that (A)the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully,
9realizing the fact that (B)law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and (C)rebellious, for the (D)ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and (E)profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10and (F)immoral men and (G)homosexuals and (H)kidnappers and (I)liars and (J)perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to (K)sound teaching,

Leviticus 18:22:

22'(A)You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10:


9Or (A)do you not know that the unrighteous will not (B)inherit the kingdom of God? (C)Do not be deceived; (D)neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [a]effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will (E)inherit the kingdom of God.

Jude 1:7:

7just as (A)Sodom and Gomorrah and the (B)cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and (C)went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an (D)example in undergoing the (E)punishment of eternal fire.



Romans 1:26-28:


26For this reason (A)God gave them over to (B)degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, (C)men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, (D)God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,

Just so you know where Christians get "this crazy idea that homosexual behavior goes against the Christian faith."

 

[Buttercup]

So, after posting the list of verses concerning both adultery and homosexuality, it still amazes me that the church tolerates remarriage and divorce MUCH more often than homosexuality. The church is flooded with divorced people who remarry. I don't get it.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

So, after posting the list of verses concerning both adultery and homosexuality, it still amazes me that the church tolerates remarriage and divorce MUCH more often than homosexuality. The church is flooded with divorced people who remarry. I don't get it.

Because the church today is ruled by Satan, it isn't for God, it is now to serve man. No longer for the creator but the creature. Whatever they want they get these days.