after five years, i left islam. here's one huge contradiction in the qur`an

[firedragon]

I have never read anything regarding Muhammad splitting the moon. However, if the early sources report that I am almost sure that the reports are not based on eyewitnesses' accounts, except of course for the account given by Muhammad himself. So, the scholars probably report it as something in which they believed simply because they trusted in Muhammad's testimony. The Satanic Verses are a different thing, though. Muhammad was certainly embarrassed by his own behaviour during the Satanic Verses episode. So, almost for certain they didn't get this story just from Muhammad. This is a criterion that historians use. It is called the criterion of embarrassment. Based on this criterion, any historian would conclude the Satanic Verses event really happened. Plus, you have multiple highly reliable INDEPENDENT early sources for it. Hence, the Satanic Verses seems to fulfil very important criteria of historicity.

Cheers mate.

 

[Crypto2015]

He didn't. He narrated to his student. Who wrote it down which got lost. Ibn bakavis work was also lost. What remains is ibn hishams work. In that the so called satanic verses are not there. Coin, I already said the exact same thing.

Read your post again. Your own post.

Oh, now I see that you are right. He dictate the book to his students. That doesn't invalidate the evidence, though. The Satanic Verses are contained in Guillaume's translation of Ibn Ishaq's work.

"Thus can be reconstructed an 'improved' "edited" text, i.e., by distinguishing or removing Ibn Hisham's additions, and by adding from al-Tabari passages attributed to Ibn Ishaq. Yet the result's degree of approximation to Ibn Ishaq's original text can only be conjectured. Such a reconstruction is available, e.g., in Guillaume's translation.[19] Here, Ibn Ishaq's introductory chapters describe pre-Islamic Arabia, before he then commences with the narratives surrounding the life of Muhammad (in Guillaume at pp. 109–690)."

 

[zahra67]

Can I ask why you currently believe in such a being's existence?

one, yesterday i discovered that in the qur`an, chapter 11 verse 1 states that the verses are perfected and explained in detail, but all of chapter 111 is clearly about muhammad wanting revenge on his uncle and her wife. the entire message of the qur`an would be benefited without that chapter. how are those perfected verses?

two, even if you believe it's supposed to be hard to understand (which makes no sense because that can cause huge amounts of misinterpretation and chaos), that is still not explanation in detail, therefore it also makes the qur`an imperfect and completely contradicts chapter 11 verse 1.

three, it's as if people thought muhammad's complaints about family were teachings and added it into the qur`an. also, these are things that people believed muhammad said sorted out by people other than muhammad. if this chapter is in there, that further destroys its credibility.

four (as asked on page 6), why are the famous mysterious letters (i.e. alif lam ra) added into the qur`an with no explanation for them? and if they weren't in the actual qur`an, then a huge part of the world has been misguided by this. this contradicts chapter 11 verse 1

there are so many verses in the qur`an that are extremely hard to understand. and if you say it wasn't talking about every verse, then that would make chapter 11 verse 1 contradict even itself.

i do still however follow God. just with no religion.

Can I ask why you currently believe in such a being's existence?

in the name of god the most compassionate the most merciful.
hi.
the holy quran is the god's word which sent it to prophet mohammad in 23 years.
there is no any distortion or contradiction in this devine book.
in chapter 15, verse 9, allah confirms the revelation of the holy quran and its protection.
Surely We have revealed the Reminder and We will most surely be its guardian.
today i found a book for you which can help you in this regard.
i offer you studying this book which is the history of islam and also the characteristics of holy prophet mohammad peace be upon him and his progeny.
i think that you can find the answer of your question in chapter four of this book.
also you can ask this question in this website.
www.byislam.com
here you are the book which i mentioned and also the book is titled: The Prophet Muhammad, a Mercy to the World.
i am shure that you enjoy it and find it useful.
please read this book entirely.
https://www.al-islam.org/node/41697
i found
www.al-islam.org
the best website for study about islam.
it contains very useful books in different languages.

 

[firedragon]

Oh, now I see that you are right. He dictate the book to his students. That doesn't invalidate the evidence, though. The Satanic Verses are contained in Guillaume's translation of Ibn Ishaq's work.

"Thus can be reconstructed an 'improved' "edited" text, i.e., by distinguishing or removing Ibn Hisham's additions, and by adding from al-Tabari passages attributed to Ibn Ishaq. Yet the result's degree of approximation to Ibn Ishaq's original text can only be conjectured. Such a reconstruction is available, e.g., in Guillaume's translation.[19] Here, Ibn Ishaq's introductory chapters describe pre-Islamic Arabia, before he then commences with the narratives surrounding the life of Muhammad (in Guillaume at pp. 109–690)."

I'm a Muslim mate. I've read it. But you have a brain. Analyze it.

 

[Crypto2015]

I'm a Muslim mate. I've read it. But you have a brain. Analyze it.

That's what we are doing right now. Why do you think that some of the most renowned Islamic scholars would come up with a story that is shameful for Muhammad?

 

[uncung]

So the absolutely undeniable similarities between Dhul and Alexander in the Neshana are purely coincidental? And the '2 horned one' has no connection to Alexander's iconography with the horns of Ammon.

Classical scholars like ibn Abbas considered him to be Alexander. There is a hadith that links Dhul to the city of Merv (which was also known as Alexandria).

The verse is supposed to be a response to the questioning of 'people of the book' anyway. Which is why all 3 narratives in the chapter come from the Christian tradition.

Then the Quran has to replace Zul Qarnain with Alexander.

 

[Crypto2015]

 

[uncung]

It says that he was a false prophet. Jesus said

"Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, by their fruit you will recognize them." (Matthew 7:15-20)

In Deuteronomy God says

‘But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.’ (Deuteronomy 18:20)

It is well attested that Muhammad spoke the Satanic Verses while being inspired by Satan. Hence, he was a false prophet. Moses would have stoned Muhammad to death.

What do you mean satanic verses? can satan inspire someone? prove it that he was inspired by satan.

 

[Crypto2015]

What do you mean satanic verses? can satan inspire someone? prove it that he was inspired by satan.

Please watch the video above.

 

[uncung]

Regarding the sun setting in muddy water, this is what some of the most famous medieval Muslim scholars thought about the verse:

• “The sun sets in a slimy spring: that is, a well which contains mud. Some of the readers of the Quran read it, ‘…a hot spring’, thus the spring combines the two descriptions. It was said that Ibn ‘Abbas found Mu’awiya reading it (as) hot. He told him, ‘It is muddy,’ Mu’awiya sent to Ka’b al-Ahbar and asked him. ‘Where does the sun set?’ He said in water and mud and there were some people. So he agreed with the statement of ibn al-‘Abbas. And there was a man who composed a few verses of poetry about the setting of the sun in the slimy spring.”– al-Baydawi,The Lights of Revelation (p. 399)
• Al-Tabari went so far as to say the pool where the sun sets contains lime (see the Concise Interpretation of Tabari, p. 19 of part 2)

let us focus on what the quran states instead of the people say.

 

[uncung]

Please watch the video above.

so the answer is the video?

 

[Crypto2015]

so the answer is the video?

It is contained in the video

 

[Crypto2015]

let us focus on what the quran states instead of the people say.

They are commenting on what the Qur'an says.

 

[uncung]

They are commenting on what the Qur'an says.

If their comments were true then we have to accept it. Are theirs true?

 

[uncung]

It is contained in the video

What does the video say about false prophet? and does it prove prophet muhammad was false?

 

[Crypto2015]

If their comments were true then we have to accept it. Are theirs true?

No, but their comments show that the Qur'an clearly teaches that the sun literally sets in a pool of water. Modern Muslims claim that this is not what the Qur'an says because it is too evident that this verse is a ridiculous mistake on the part of "Allah". However, early Muslim scholars had no problem affirming that the sun sinks into a pool of water simply because that's what the text says.

 

[Crypto2015]

What does the video say about false prophet? and does it prove prophet muhammad was false?

Why don't you watch the video?

 

[uncung]

Why don't you watch the video?

I watch it. What an interesting video. thanks.

 

[uncung]

No, but their comments show that the Qur'an clearly teaches that the sun literally sets in a pool of water. Modern Muslims claim that this is not what the Qur'an says because it is too evident that this verse is a ridiculous mistake on the part of "Allah". However, early Muslim scholars had no problem affirming that the sun sinks into a pool of water simply because that's what the text says.

yes, but are their comments in accordance with what the quran states? Because if they said so then they definitely misunderstood the verse. The verse doesn't state the sun set in the pool of water

 

[firedragon]

That's what we are doing right now. Why do you think that some of the most renowned Islamic scholars would come up with a story that is shameful for Muhammad?

Because they thought its true.